Posted on 06/23/2005 10:55:14 PM PDT by Gamecock
While the Episcopal and United Methodist churches have struggled over homosexuality, another mainline Protestant denomination - the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - has been relatively quiet. But that's changing.
Since 2001, Presbyterians have been awaiting recommendations from a special task force on "Peace, Unity and Purity," charged with seeking a way to overcome severe disagreements on gay relationships and other issues. Now that task force is close to completing its work, with the group preparing its final report at meetings in Dallas next month and Chicago in August.
Some aren't even waiting to read the fine print: 85 conservative congregations sent delegates to a convocation in Edina, Minn., that ended last weekend.
There, representatives endorsed platforms that laid out essential doctrines and "ethical imperatives," including the Bible as infallible, salvation through Jesus Christ alone, the necessity of world evangelism and rejection of gay sex and abortion.
The group - which calls itself the New Wineskins Initiative - also proposed a radically reorganized, mission-minded denomination to halt decades of decline in the Presbyterian church, which has a current membership of 2.4 million. The Rev. Tom Edwards of Wichita, Kan., who organized the Edina meeting, said Presbyterianism is too top-heavy and must "start serving the local congregation and stop being a structure that exists for the local congregation to serve the national bureaucracy."
New Wineskins wants its conservative beliefs and restructuring plan to be adopted by next year's national assembly. The assembly will also debate the task force report and the latest liberal attempt to abolish the church's policy against actively gay clergy and lay officers.
Though New Wineskins leaders emphasize unity around the group's bold vision, there's a scent of schism.
The Rev. David Henderson of West Lafayette, Ind., moderator of New Wineskins, sees three possibilities for the church's future:
_A thoroughly reformed denomination such as New Wineskins proposes;
_New Wineskins congregations find it necessary to leave the denomination;
_The denomination holds together, but congregations affiliate with like-minded networks within it, such as New Wineskins and liberal groups.
New Wineskins isn't schismatic, Henderson told Edina delegates, "because the schism has already happened," meaning liberals and conservatives are thoroughly divided.
The Rev. Jerry Van Marter, who covered the meeting for the church's news service, said it was "the most overt consideration of a split in the denomination that we have yet seen." Some participants are ready to leave now, he said, while others want dramatic change "but hold out very little hope for that happening."
Another observer was the Rev. Parker Williamson of Lenoir, N.C., whose ardently conservative Presbyterian Lay Committee promoted the Edina meeting.
Williamson personally thinks a Presbyterian breakup is "inevitable" but two elements are necessary. One is an organization for dissatisfied congregations, which New Wineskins now provides, unlike other conservative caucuses that stress loyalty to the existing denomination.
The second element is a "precipitating event," especially a liberal victory on homosexuality at next year's assembly.
Pamela Byers of the San Francisco-based Covenant Network vows continual work until church offices are opened to gays and lesbians, though "I'd be very sorry if this does lead to schism."
For years, liberals have been frustrated by the denomination's repeated refusal to abolish its sexual conduct rules, while conservatives have been equally frustrated by liberals' ongoing agitation and disregard for church law.
In 2001, regional units called "presbyteries" voted down a conservative proposal to bar church blessings for same-sex couples. A second issue erupted when a minister told a denominational conference that God brings salvation through various religions, not just Christianity, after which Presbyterian leaders affirmed that such discussions are proper.
One reaction to the growing rift has been the "Confessing Church Movement," through which congregations with 18 percent of Presbyterian members have insisted that "Jesus Christ alone is Lord of all and the way of salvation" and that "marriage between a man and a woman (is) the only relationship within which sexual activity is appropriate." Another response was talks among a few pastors that eventually produced the New Wineskins Initiative.
Strategists acknowledge that if congregations do decide to leave, they'd need to form a new denomination because the existing Evangelical Presbyterian Church and Presbyterian Church in America are too conservative, especially on the role of women in the church.
Another practical and complex problem is congregations' buildings. As with the Methodists and Episcopalians, a Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) trust clause says the denomination holds all local properties. But three attorneys told crowded workshops at Edina that recent court decisions mean denominational control is not necessarily open-and-shut.
I think the real issue here is that the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and Presbyterian Church in America are "too conservative" in holding to the infallibility of Scripture, while many in the PC(USA) hold a lower view of the same.
Homosexuality and ordaining women is not the problem, but rather the fruit of the liberalism that has invaded much of the PC(USA).
In that case, what they are arguing is akin to between Stage 2 cancer and terminal stage cancer. Nothing to see here, everyone move away please...
The big problem will come when they find out that the PCUSA holds title to their church buildings. We lost our church building in the 60s when we left the PCUSA. And... doesn't the E Presby allow for women elders?
How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb?
Charismatic: Only one. Hands already in the air.
Pentecostal: Ten. One to change the bulb, and nine to pray
against spirit of darkness.
Presbyterians: None. Lights will go on and off at
predestined times.
Roman Catholic: None. Candles only.
Baptists: At least 15. One to change the light bulb, and
three committees to approve the change and decide who brings
the potato salad and fried chicken.
Episcopalians: Three. One to call the electrician, one to
mix the drinks, and one to talk about how much better the
old one was.
Mormons: Five. One man to change the bulb, and four wives to
tell him how to do it.
Unitarians: We choose not to make a statement either in
favor of or against the need for a light bulb. However, if
in your own journey you have found that light bulbs work for
you, that is fine. You are invited to write a poem or
compose a modern dance about your light bulb for the next
Sunday service in which we will explore a number of light
bulb traditions, including: incandescent, fluorescent three
way, long-life and tinted, all of which are equally valid
paths to luminescence.
Methodists: Undetermined. Whether your light is bright,
dull, or completely out, you are loved. You can be a light
bulb, turnip bulb, or tulip bulb. Church-wide lighting
service is planned for Sunday. Bring bulb of your choice and
a covered dish.
Nazarene: Six. One woman to replace the bulb while five men
review church lighting policy.
Lutherans: None. Lutherans don't believe in change.
Amish: What's a light bulb?
| 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? |
The Evangelical Presbyterian Church neither mandates nor forbids women as Ruling or Teaching Elders. That decision is left to the individual congregation. Note that the call of Teaching Elders (ministers) must be approved by the Presbytery. The position of the EPC is detailed here
Thanks for the information. I would disagree with their stand, but, that is their stand. I would agree that in all things essential we MUST be in agreement.
People can and and often do leave churches because they have watered down their doctrine and become too liberal. That is one reason that PC USA membership is declining and the PCA and EPC Churches are flourishing. Look at the quagmire of the Episcopal Church with their Bishop Robinson. Why would any of us want to step into that mess. Why not rather abstain from the ways of the World and hold fast to the Word of God? Why follow the world into its degradation? It is better to follow Christ and enter by the narrow gate than to embrace destruction and the futility of modern liberalism.
New Wineskins believes in the infallibility of Scripture.
As for the EPC, they are liberal enough I can't see how these people could not fit in.
Women pastors are allowed in the EPC, though it is up to each individual congregation. Many don't have women pastors, some do.
"Pentecostal: Ten. One to change the bulb, and nine to pray
against spirit of darkness."
A Pentecostal nut actually exorcised a friend of mine last year at college. She thought she was possessed by a demon...lol
I believe in demon possession....I have seen tapes of exorcisms, and some of those are legit....no way it is just a mental illness because that doesn't cause a frail woman to be so strong as to have to be held down by 5 strong men to keep her from leaving her seat. But, I assure you, my friend is not possessed. :)
I am concerned that the PCA will become a watered down PCUSA. It already seems to be on its way.
LOL on the "how many does it take" list! Were you creative enough to write that yourself or did you get that from somewhere?
What evidence do you have? Every time I hear about the PCA General Assembly it is good. We have fought off efforts to weaken our doctrine and to compromise the Word of God.
Please do not make these kinds of statement without evidence. You are talking about the body of Christ, so please state your case clearly and concisely.
The main thing is the increasing number of praise bands and seeker-sensitive worship.
I have visited a PCA with a praise band leading the music, onstage, with girls displaying their belly piercings. The music was awful and so was the visual.
I have had a heated discussion with our pastor and elders over the "praise" music issue. I thought I was safe inside an OPC but it seems that the disease of modernism seeks to metastasize. Although the OPC seems to hold to a more conservative line than the PCA I have learned that there is only one reformed church. That is the one that realizes that the Church will always need to be on guard against doctrine( and music ) that tickles the ear rather than total dependance on Christ and him crucified ( preached faithfully ).
I know that I am old-fashioned because I value integrity. How do churches have standards and ignore the practical application of those standards? An obvious example is the ELCA, with the Book of Concord as it's standard, wanting to unite with the RCC. Why would a Reformed church want to attract "seekers" with worldly methods? Do they not see that they are setting a standard for saying one thing and doing another?
That is what happens when you toss out the regulative principle of worship...
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