Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Agrarian
Glory be to Jesus Christ!

I just want to respond briefly to a couple of points:

I am unaware of *anything* that indicates that the "Third Rome" moniker was the result of believing that Constantinople had fallen into heresy. I'm not sure where you would get that.

I think you're right, I think I misquoted the original ditty, which I think went, "The first Rome fell into heresy, the second Rome fell to the Turks, Two Romes have fallen. The third stands. And there will not be a fourth. No one will replace your Christian Tsardom!" The monk Filofei saod this in a panegyric to Tsar Vasili III in 1510. I stand corrected, my mistake.

You can read the whole thing here: http://college.hmco.com/history/west/mosaic/chapter8/source301.html

...There have never been the kinds of sea-changes that happened in the Western liturgy after Vatican II. Pope Benedict has written on this.

One thing that is certain, though -- any Christian from the 5th century, East or West, could land in my parish on a Sunday morning and would know what was going on. I can pretty much guarantee that the same wouldn't be true if he were to land in one of our local Catholic parishes.

I think that Christians of any age would recognize the sequence of the Mass, the Liturgy of the Word and of the Eucharist, the place of the Creed, of the epiclesis and the anaphora. I don' see this structure having changed at all. The rubrics, the readings, sure, they have changed.

But so what? There are things that can be said abou not changing. Where would that leave us? It leaves us arguing about who is first in the Kingdom of Heaven, which is where the matter has stood for 1,000 years.

-Theo

130 posted on 05/30/2005 3:27:39 PM PDT by Teófilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies ]


To: Teófilo; Agrarian

"I think that Christians of any age would recognize the sequence of the Mass, the Liturgy of the Word and of the Eucharist, the place of the Creed, of the epiclesis and the anaphora."

I have searched in vain for the epiclesis in the NO rubrics. I understand that the Roman Church has taught that at the consecration the priest stands in the place of Christ. Does this explain the apparent absence of an epiclesis? In the Orthodox Divine Liturgy is is clearly expressed that it is the prayer of the priest and people that God, through the Holy Spirit:

"Priest (in a low voice):
Once again we offer to You this spiritual worship without the shedding of blood, and we ask, pray, and entreat You: send down Your Holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts here presented.

And make this bread the precious Body of Your Christ.

(He blesses the holy Bread.)

Deacon (in a low voice):
Amen.

Priest (in a low voice):
And that which is in this cup the precious Blood of Your Christ.

(He blesses the holy Cup.)

Deacon (in a low voice):
Amen.

Priest (in a low voice):
Changing them by Your Holy Spirit.

(He blesses them both.)

Deacon (in a low voice):
Amen. Amen. Amen."

What am I missing?


138 posted on 05/30/2005 4:15:07 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 130 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson