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Theotokos

1 posted on 05/11/2005 10:04:08 AM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...

The Magnificat [Latin: magnifies], also called the Canticle of Mary, is recorded in the Gospel of Luke (1:46-55). It is the Virgin Mary's joyous prayer in response to the Angel Gabriel's annunciation to her that she will become the mother of the Son of God. This great hymn forms part of the Church's prayer in the Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours). When it is recited as part of the Divine Office, it is followed by the Gloria Patri ("Glory be"). The traditional sung Magnificat is Latin plainchant. One of the hymn's most glorious musical renditions is the version of the Magnificat by J.S. Bach.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes the Magnificat as "the song both of the Mother of God and of the Church" [CCC 2619], and explains this prayer's significance:

Mary's prayer is revealed to us at the dawning of the fullness of time. Before the Incarnation of the Son of God, and before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, her prayer cooperates in a unique way with the Father's plan of loving kindness: at the Annunciation, for Christ's conception; at Pentecost, for the formation of the Church, His Body. In the faith of His humble handmaid, the Gift of God found the acceptance He had awaited from the beginning of time. She whom the Almighty made "full of grace" responds by offering her whole being: "Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to Thy word". "Fiat": this is Christian prayer: to be wholly Gods' because He is wholly ours. [CCC 2617]

The Magnificat appears below both in English and in Latin.


My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Scripture text: Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition


Magnificat anima mea Dominum;
Et exultavit spiritus meus in Deo salutari meo,
Quia respexit humilitatem ancillae suae; ecce enim ex hoc beatam me dicent omnes generationes.
Quia fecit mihi magna qui potens est, et sanctum nomen ejus,
Et misericordia ejus a progenie in progenies timentibus eum.
Fecit potentiam brachio suo;
Dispersit superbos mente cordis sui.
Deposuit potentes de sede, et exaltavit humiles.
Esurientes implevit bonis, et divites dimisit inanes.
Sucepit Israel, puerum suum, recordatus misericordiae suae,
Sicut locutus est ad patres nostros, Abraham et semeni ejus in saecula.

Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.
Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.

2 posted on 05/11/2005 10:06:37 AM PDT by NYer ("Love without truth is blind; Truth without love is empty." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: biblewonk

I saw the title and read the first sentence.

For some reason, your name came to mind.

Ping.


3 posted on 05/11/2005 10:33:06 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
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To: NYer
Great article.

A minor remark.

her lack of faith (allegedly demonstrated in Mark 3:21)

Never heard of this one.

20 And they come to a house, and the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread.

21 And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.

22 And the scribes who were come down from Jerusalem, said: He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of devils he casteth out devils.

(Mark 3:20-22)

Clearly, the "friends" in Verse 21 is not His Mother because she and His "brothers" arrive at the scene later in Verse 31 and are properly identified as family members:
31 And his mother and his brethren came; and standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

5 posted on 05/11/2005 10:48:25 AM PDT by annalex
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To: NYer

Sorry but none of this sounds like objections "evangelicals" have with Mary. Relying on what the Catholic Church says is not an objective analysis of scriptural text.

Mr. Shea may try to pass himself off as an "evangelical" but a little searching on his web page says otherwise.


7 posted on 05/11/2005 11:04:22 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: NYer
As Evangelicals we could say, "If not for Paul, the Gospel would never have reached the Gentiles."

This is nonsense. That any evangelical would ascribe to our soveriegn God an inability to reach the Gentiles, except through Paul, is Catholic nonsense.

Just one example of the strawmen in this piece that could fill a barn.

9 posted on 05/11/2005 11:22:29 AM PDT by Freakazoid (God is sovereign)
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To: NYer

I have never understood why it is considered sin to have sex with my spouse and conceive a child. Can anyone enlighten me cause I just don't get it.


12 posted on 05/11/2005 11:43:08 AM PDT by redlocks322
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To: NYer

****So many Christians who love Jesus with all their hearts recoil in fear at the mention of His mother's name,****

Not at the real Mary of the Bible, but at the demi-savior mother figure created out of mostly theological speculation.

We have been repeatedly warned in the Scripture about not accepting substitutes.


13 posted on 05/11/2005 11:43:32 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: NYer; biblewonk; newgeezer

14 posted on 05/11/2005 11:44:37 AM PDT by ksen ("He that knows nothing will believe anything." - Thomas Fuller)
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To: NYer; newgeezer

I just learned that the Mormons have a Heavenly Mother! How very similar Heavenly Mother ~ Queen of Heaven ~ Mother of God. What's really noticable is that they call this doctrine "sacred" to the point of not really wanting to talk about it. You have to pry to learn they even hold such doctrines. Also, it's totally apart from the bible, just like Marianism. And what's also funny is they can hold this and still complain about the trinity and say "Where in the bible is the mention of trinity". What similarities you all have, and how frustrating to me.


29 posted on 05/11/2005 12:13:40 PM PDT by biblewonk (Socialism isn't all bad.)
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To: NYer
The Thread is a bit long, I will have to get back to it latter so forgive me if I mention something already in the article. The point for this recovering Episcopalian was the Prophecy of Simon at the Presentation at the Temple.

A clear reference to Mary's role in separating the faithful from the doubtful.
49 posted on 05/11/2005 12:46:28 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: NYer

Cool article.


95 posted on 05/11/2005 1:44:09 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: NYer

If Mary really points at Jesus why don't you look there instead of at her?


131 posted on 05/11/2005 2:53:05 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: St. Johann Tetzel

Don't know if you've looked at this thread yet or not, but it's pretty interesting.


177 posted on 05/11/2005 5:56:42 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: NYer

Prayer, penance, reparation and conversion.

These are the messages of our Blessed Mother.


245 posted on 05/11/2005 11:14:06 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
So many Christians who love Jesus with all their hearts recoil in fear at the mention of His mother's name, while many who do love her find themselves tongue-tied when asked to explain why.

He done shot himself in the foot with this sentence in the openning paragraph. I know of few people who recoil. I know many that express concern with the Catholic Marian Devotion. Some of it is cultural, some of it is what many perceive as scripttual (and can be debated both ways) and of some of it is something that has been passed from generation to generation and maybe for lack of a better term out of ignorance. But recoil?

It's one thing to editorialize or even try to explain a faiths belief. But to paint those who do not have Marian Devotion as recoiling is a bit like non Catholics saying Catholics are idol worshippers because of their Marian Devotion when trying to have a discussion of reason on the topic.

352 posted on 05/12/2005 9:53:22 AM PDT by joesbucks
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To: NYer
Over the iron forest
he saw Our Lady stand,
Her eyes were sad withouten art
And seven swords were in her heart -
But one was in her hand.

- GK. Chesterton
Ballad of the White Horse

Virgo potens, ora pro nobis.

Mary, Exterminatrix of Heresies, ora pro nobis.

479 posted on 05/12/2005 1:10:48 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: NYer

As Oswald Chambers and others have noted:

THE GOOD IS THE ENEMY OF THE BEST.

Jesus Died

that we might have immediate access through HIM TO THE FATHER.

HE IS OUR INTERMEDIARY.

imho . . .

Setting HIM aside in any deagree for any length of time to focus on a lesser soul

is an insult to The Cross, to His Blood

AND TO MARY

who TOLD us to

LISTEN

TO !!!!!HIM!!!!!

Sigh.

It was a very effective political move back when it began. Won the day and lots of money. But I do not believe the origin of the idea was Heaven.


537 posted on 05/12/2005 6:58:18 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: NYer

Once again, Mary's coming was prophesied ~ kind of makes her special.


555 posted on 05/12/2005 8:05:59 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: NYer

The element of the demonic in the cult of the BVM is not so easily swept under the rug. Like the deity of mormonism, mariolatry provides an example of a self-aware spiritual entity moving into God's place in the hearts and minds of the cultists, soliciting prayers, exhorting to righteousness, working wonders.


591 posted on 05/13/2005 4:41:52 AM PDT by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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To: All

I wonder why there is so much fear on the part of Protestants and others concerning the possibility for error within the Catholic Church. Taking into considertion the Biblical injuction not to "cast pearls before swine etc," know they not that our priests, heirarchy and tradition are the very walls that protect us from paganism? Sure we may be over enthusiastic in our devotions from the persepctive of those who have lost that security but, we are not going to run off a cliff so long as those walls are in place. Luther himself was no enemy to Marian devotion but it seems to be a more common development the farther away you get from those walls. Part of it is a lack of historical context, they just don't remember the fuedal symbology which most Marian devotion is surrounded in. They see it as some kind of paganism.


603 posted on 05/13/2005 5:23:20 AM PDT by Diva
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