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To: GipperGal
You know what -- something tells me that if the diocese there were to ordained "women priests" and/or "married priests", the problem of accommodating a booming Catholic community would indeed disappear. Why? Because there would no longer be a growth in Church attendance! If fact, they would probably lose more than half of their current members. I willing to venture a guess that the reason why their community is growing is that they are an orthodox diocese!

How do you explain the growth in parishes WITH married priests? Most Catholics (if you believe the surveys) support married men in the priesthood. It's simply no big deal to them.

Look at the acceptance of married deacons.

I'm willing to venture a guess that accepting married men into the priesthood would be greeted enthusiastically by 80% or more of the weekly Mass attendees.

5 posted on 05/10/2005 10:54:40 AM PDT by sinkspur (If you want unconditional love with skin, and hair and a warm nose, get a shelter dog.)
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To: sinkspur

Married deacons is one thing. Even I don't have a problem with that. But married priests, no -- unless they are former Anglicans or Orthodox priests who have converted to Catholicism. People flock to parishes that are orthodox.


7 posted on 05/10/2005 11:00:33 AM PDT by GipperGal
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To: sinkspur
So? Is this a popularity contest? Why should the hierarchy trust mere surveys in making decisions within the Church? The Church isn't a democracy and it shouldn't be concerned with how the laity "accept" a particular discipline. Why not have priests have only male altar servers and encourage young men to think about their vocation?

The priesthood is a full time job that requires hours of prayer study and, of course, administering the Sacraments. Now, if you add a wife and kids to the equation, doesn't this take away time from a priest's duties?
11 posted on 05/10/2005 11:14:37 AM PDT by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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To: sinkspur
How do you explain the growth in parishes WITH married priests?

How many are there? Where are they located? Got some statistics to back this up?

What about ordaining women as priests?

13 posted on 05/10/2005 11:21:15 AM PDT by NYer ("Love without truth is blind; Truth without love is empty." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: sinkspur

Whereas I agree with many of your posts I believe the following study, eventually, would be about Catholic priests.

STRESS ON MINISTERS :

In a study by Moy & Malony, (1987), it was suggested that due to the significant number of stressors and the relatively few available resources, ministers are at high risk for developing burn-out.

It seems that despite the real spiritual aspects of the ministry, ministers are far from immune from developing significant psychological and emotional problems.
In their study they asked ex-ministers why they left their profession, it was found that:

there was a sense of personal and professional inadequacy, an inability to inhibit relocation when necessary, and problems with relationships eg. with wife and or with children.

Role confusion:

Stress exists wherever there is confusion over one's roles or tasks, even over their values.

Clergy question themselves:?

What am I first a minister, a spouse, a parent, ???
Ministers make a covenant with God pledging loyalty to His service and people; however, married ministers also make a pledge or a covenant with God to their spouses - to love, & honor, in sickness & in health, for better for worse, till death do they part, this also encompasses their children, or future children.
Job insecurity / job relocation & pay:

- An over supply of ministers or high concentration of them in a particular area this can also results in lack of jobs, or then relocation becomes an issue,
mobility;

- Assignments out of the area brings in issues typical for anyone relocating. It is estimated that nearly 200 clergy move every day of the year. Decision about mobility are external to the family, often they cannot be refused, resulting in loss of support networks, disruption of personal growth, shifts in marital & family functioning.
What makes this more unique to clergy families is their lack of a decision. (Morris & Blanton, 1992).
financial compensation;

- Clergy are considered in the top 10% of the population in terms of education, yet they rank 325 out of 432 occupations in terms of salary.

- Education wise clergy are among the best educated comparable with that of lawyers, & doctors,,, pay wise it is comparable to that of someone far less educated.

. for many clergy families this is a chronic stressor
something I never thought about.

. clergy do not have an organized channel for collective bargaining and or requesting greater remuneration for their services.

Spousal Stressors:

Expectations;

- Via the congregations, spouses are expectant to be the resident holy woman, after all she is married to a preacher.

- More typical in Protestant denominations and more so in the past the wife was also expected to be an active supporter to her husbands ministry.

*** with the changing times and women's movement.... this expectation is lessoning.

- She is expected to be a model wife, and if they have children a model mother.

- She must dress accordingly.

- She is expected to fill in for her husband as a counselor or be a good listener.





21 posted on 05/10/2005 11:34:44 AM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed.)
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To: sinkspur
I believe the following written by Fr. Robert J. Levis, of Erie, PA on 09-10-2003 does a good job. Note his last sentence. There has been a push for married priests as far back as I can remember and I am 73. The financial support was always the main reason apologists for the Church, including me, looked dimly on married priests.

Celibacy will remain a characteristic of the Western Priesthood for the following reasons:

1. The priest is considered a groom, like Christ the Groom, married to the whole Church. This is an ancient patriarchal notion and a good one. This Christian union is monogamous, one husband with one wife. The priest's wife is his people whom he serves without counting the effort.

2. The vocation of the priest is to stand in the person of Christ who was celibacy throughout his whole life.

3. The primary purpose of marriage is the rearing and training of children, an enormous task. An essential duty of the priest is to administer the Sacraments most especially the Holy Eucharist, a most solemn duty which requires a detached life, much solitary prayer, and training for homiletic work.

4. The priest is considered the "sexless one", the man to whom all, men and women, may come in complete freedom and openness with their counseling problems. Any woman can see the priest who is not some woman's husband, which is a freedom for her and an advantage for the independent priest.

5. Imagine the costs of providing for a priest and his non-conceptive family, a real practical consideration in these times. God bless.

Fr. Bob Levis
30 posted on 05/10/2005 11:43:04 AM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed.)
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To: sinkspur

The statistics have already proven this to be an utterly moot point. Married priests won't be the panacea. A return to orthodoxy is what is needed. Those dioceses that have embraced unapologetic Catholicism and kicked the homos out of the seminary have little or no vocations 'crisis.' That's the key. The rest of this stuff is agenda-driven hokum.


33 posted on 05/10/2005 11:45:39 AM PDT by Antoninus (Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini, Hosanna in excelsis!)
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To: sinkspur; Petronski
Look at the acceptance of married deacons.

Many pastors I've spoken to, and most of the orthodox pastors, very much dislike the Permanent Diaconate.

Its good to have consecrated hands to assist in distribution of Holy Eucharist. Otherwise, the deacons need to get out of our pulpits, off the altar and back to their scriptural role. Their training in general is abysmal, their grasp of theology poor, and their adherence to moral theology issues like contraception is spotty at best. One of the Permanent Deacons here ran off to Canada with one of his high school students then committed suicide. I knew him before he entered diaconate training. They screwed his mind up so bad with their warped theology, he cracked up.

41 posted on 05/10/2005 11:51:20 AM PDT by St. Johann Tetzel (Sometimes "Defending the Faith" means you have to be willing to get your hands dirty...)
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To: sinkspur
How do you explain the growth in parishes WITH married priests? Most Catholics (if you believe the surveys) support married men in the priesthood. It's simply no big deal to them.

I didn't know there were that many married Catholic priests...we have a few that converted from the Episcapal church....but having married priests in general... WOULD JUST open up pandoras box-IT WOULD BE A BIG DEAL BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS IT WOULD CAUSE

229 posted on 05/10/2005 6:18:40 PM PDT by okokie (Terri Schivo Martyr for the Gospel of Life)
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To: sinkspur
Hey, sink, do you realize we've been going back and forth on this thread since 10:30 am (my time) this morning?

It's been fun! Thanks for the wonderful discussion. I'm signing off now. I do hope to see you on other threads!

God bless you in your ministry, GG

336 posted on 05/10/2005 9:18:27 PM PDT by GipperGal
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To: sinkspur

Priests can be married men. It's biblical.

Some of the popes had wives or known consorts.

That's if I remember church history properly.

The single priest thing came about due to disputes over property rights in Europe.

The Church today I believe, recognizes married priests from other communions of the orthodox.

At one time, scripturally, marriage was a minimum requirement for the pastorate.

Female pastorates will never happen, because they are not scriptural or traditionally allowed.... but Married Priests?

absolutely.

And I think it is ONE area where the breaches between the Roman Catholics, and various bible believing Christian groups, who prefer to stay in fellowship with one another could be closed for good.

I do NOT think married priests is the step down the slippery slopw to ordaining women or gays.


339 posted on 05/10/2005 10:20:53 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2
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