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How John Calvin Led Me to Repent of Christian Psychology
the-highway.com ^ | 1998 | Steven J. Cole

Posted on 05/04/2005 9:19:47 AM PDT by ksen

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To: Oberon

I'd get a lot less grief if people realized that about me sometimes. ;-)


101 posted on 05/05/2005 7:36:35 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (Will work for tagline.)
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To: Rhadaghast

Interesting response, Kevon. Leanne Payne (Wheaton/ PCM Conferences) speaks of Psychology as a secular religion. "There are high priests, there is secret knowledge that only they know, there are rules that are not to be broken, there is dogma." Having spent time working towards a MA in Psych, I have to agree with you, and her.


102 posted on 05/05/2005 7:58:01 AM PDT by bboop
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To: Lexinom

Guess I would have to say to that-follow the Bible,not Calvin. Only the Bible can give direction to those needing it. God's perfect design for marriage is one man for one woman for a lifetime. I believe if God's principles are followed this will happen and happily so. Only the Bible and God, not Calvin, can help a marriage.


103 posted on 05/05/2005 8:56:22 AM PDT by housewife101
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

I have been to a psychiatrist as well as a psychologist. I don't recommend either. Psychiatry is a religion all its own-at least to most that practice it.


104 posted on 05/05/2005 8:57:56 AM PDT by housewife101
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To: ksen

I wish these threads wouldn't degenerate so fast (or if they did, they were at least funnier).

There is a general view, both in and out of church, that people "deserve" happiness and that interior "feelings" are our best and truest guide. I've completely given up on this theory.

Happiness on earth is a combination of the luck, hard work and common sense. Happiness is not particularly a function of salvation. If we strive to eradicate sin in ourselves and to worship God and to minister to our neighbors we may or may not "feel" better about ourselves but we're doing the right things.

Scripture really tells us all we need to know about our behavior (whether we like it or not). Scripture is less forthright about how we are suppose to "feel" at any given time. Popular psychology seems to emphasize these feelings over behavior. To me, it's a cart-before-the-horse type thing.


105 posted on 05/05/2005 8:59:46 AM PDT by Gingersnap
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To: bboop

I am to infer from you post that you are a christian, serious in seeking your right place in Christ? Also what school are you going to? Keep track of the presups that you encounter. Some of them in psych are so ingrained that they do not even see where they lead.


106 posted on 05/05/2005 9:01:22 AM PDT by Rhadaghast ( Free Lancer for Christ, Paradigm Shifting Specialist.)
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To: Corin Stormhands

my mistake I made an assumption that you were not happy with the typology you got.


107 posted on 05/05/2005 9:02:17 AM PDT by Rhadaghast ( Free Lancer for Christ, Paradigm Shifting Specialist.)
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To: Oberon; Corin Stormhands; ksen
"That reply was a power play, as was the post that occasioned it. You guys stopped actually conversing at least two posts ago."

Yes indeed. The truth is certainly powerful. From my point of view, we never "conversed" at all. Stormhands asked a supposed rhetorical question and I gave a sincere answer to which he took offense and also revealed the ingenuine nature of his intentions to ksen. What I pointed out was that this is typical behavior for him as it is for others on this forum.

Stormhands, you get your wish...point made, subject dropped.

108 posted on 05/05/2005 9:48:11 AM PDT by eklekton
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To: P-Marlowe; Religion Moderator
Given that your post was an attack on Calvinists, and I am a Calvinist, you might want to rethink that argument.

That being said, I would love to see the empirical data that lead to the suspicion that many Christian Psychologists are "mainline" Calvinists. That Calvin College has a psychology department is hardly relevant, particularly since Calvin College has become a lot more liberal over the years.

I would love to see you take the Religion Moderator's admonitions seriously by seeing you refrain from the type of divisive, generalized, thread jumping posts like the one I responded to.

Have a nice day, Marlowe...and the last word if you wish.

109 posted on 05/05/2005 10:00:06 AM PDT by Frumanchu (I fear the sanctions of the Mediator far above the sanctions of the moderator...)
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To: Rhadaghast

Yes, I am a strong, fiery Christian. No longer pursuing Psychology. Greetings.


110 posted on 05/05/2005 10:02:51 AM PDT by bboop
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To: eklekton; ksen; Corin Stormhands
I gave a sincere answer to which he took offense and also revealed the ingenuine nature of his intentions to ksen. What I pointed out was that this is typical behavior for him as it is for others on this forum.

Ooooh...that'll cost you a tenth for "failure to recognize irony"...

Stormhands, you get your wish...point made, subject dropped.

...and another tenth for "passive-aggressive play."

Good attempt at getting the last word, however, although it may be far too soon for that gambit to work. =]

111 posted on 05/05/2005 10:12:58 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Oberon
"Ooooh...that'll cost you a tenth for "failure to recognize irony"... and another tenth for "passive-aggressive play."

ROFL. That means I'm batting .800 I'll take it!

112 posted on 05/05/2005 10:22:09 AM PDT by eklekton
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To: eklekton

LOL. Good call!


113 posted on 05/05/2005 10:25:17 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: All
As I said earlier, I believe there is often an essential link between unthankfulness and depression. It seems to me to go like this... we grumble and complain about our circumstances rather than be thankful for them as we should (ultimately) as we are exhorted in Romans 8:28-29; our unthankful disposition leads to anger, usually suppressed in some manner and to some degree; this anger eventually produces depression.

I'm not trying to suggest that this simplistic progression is trivial to overcome. On the contrary, I see it as insidious, pervasive, and akin to the "strongholds" mentioned in 2Cor. 10:4. I'd be pleased to hear anyone's perspective on these thoughts...thanks!

114 posted on 05/05/2005 11:20:19 AM PDT by eklekton
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To: housewife101
Everything you've said is correct. In an ideal situation it would work. Ideal means both man and wife work together, are extremely sanctified, are mature in the faith. I guess that does not apply to us.

You see, we've tried to follow just the Bible for six years. I steadfastly refused counselling, for the same reasons you mention: it isn't biblical, it's psychobabble, etc. I still believe a lot of this, but desparately want to have a happy marriage. I am tired of going through life angry at other couples who have what I so desperately want, and will do anything now to get that. I don't have the wisdom, or tenderness, or insight, or something.

When a wife rejects the scripture that her body is not her own but belongs to her husband (as likewise his belongs to her), what can a man do?

115 posted on 05/05/2005 11:46:45 AM PDT by Lexinom (You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.)
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To: Lexinom
we've tried to follow just the Bible for six years

but When a wife rejects the scripture

This problem is sin and the sin needs to be addressed and repented of so that the counseling can provide the tools to change the habits the sin has put in place.

116 posted on 05/05/2005 12:42:26 PM PDT by suzyjaruki (We love Him because He first loved us. 1John 4:19)
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To: suzyjaruki
This problem is sin and the sin needs to be addressed and repented of so that the counseling can provide the tools to change the habits the sin has put in place.

That's a mouthful, but a thoughtful analysis: a soft and penitent heart, submissive to the Scripture, provides the foundation requisite to real change.

You are a wise person.

117 posted on 05/05/2005 12:51:52 PM PDT by Lexinom (You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.)
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To: Frumanchu; xzins; Corin Stormhands; jude24
That being said, I would love to see the empirical data that lead to the suspicion that many Christian Psychologists are "mainline" Calvinists.

I do apologize for thinking that only the fringe or extreme Calvinists would be wholesale opposed to the idea of Christian Psychology. And I was unaware of the apostacy of Calvin College from the mainstream of Calvinist thought.

I guess I'll just have to assume that being opposed to Christian Psychology is part and parcel of being a mainstream Calvinist. Must be in the institutes someplace, eh?

118 posted on 05/05/2005 1:00:28 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Gingersnap; ksen
Happiness is not particularly a function of salvation.

Boy, I couldn't disagree with you more. Scripture is filled with assurances that God takes care of His flock.

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." -- Hebrews 13:20-21.

119 posted on 05/05/2005 1:01:05 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"Happiness is not particularly a function of salvation. Boy, I couldn't disagree with you more."

I don't think salvation protects us from the troubles and tragedies that beset most human beings. It may comfort us and strengthen us but it doesn't prevent us from feeling grief or situational fear. Scripture and tradition both have many examples of people whom we presume were saved but who also dealt with fear, despair, or grief.

Conversely, I'm sure there are a few very happy Christians out there who are not saved. My main point was that we too often rely on our subjective feelings these days when we try to determine if an action (or piece of scripture) is "good". Sometimes what is best for us is also difficult, tedious, or frustrating.
120 posted on 05/05/2005 1:22:18 PM PDT by Gingersnap
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