Posted on 03/02/2005 7:32:39 PM PST by marshmallow
TORONTO - The Catholic Bishop of Calgary says if it was up to him, he would consider excommunicating Paul Martin over his government's plan to legalize same-sex marriage.
Bishop Fred Henry said yesterday the Prime Minister's political views clash so severely with the teachings of the Catholic Church that he no longer deserves to receive Communion.
The outspoken bishop has made similar remarks in the past, but in an interview yesterday on The Michael Coren Show, he went so far as to suggest the Roman Catholic Church should consider the rare step of excommunication, which would prohibit Mr. Martin from receiving the Eucharist during Mass.
"I would have to consider it, yes," Bishop Henry said when asked what he would do if the decision was his to make.
"You're either with the Church or you're not," he said of the same-sex marriage debate.
"And if you're not with the Church, it's not the Church that's giving you the hard time.
"You are separating yourself from the Body of Christ, and that becomes a personal decision that you have to deal with."
Numerous Catholic leaders have decried Mr. Martin's support for gay-marriage legislation, accusing him of turning his back on his faith. Among the most vocal critics is Bishop Henry, who once suggested former prime minister Jean Chretien, also a devout Catholic, could lose his "eternal salvation" by trying to push a gay-marriage law through Parliament.
"When we're dealing with a politician, it's frustrating," Bishop Henry said yesterday.
"You'd like to kind of give them the boot. But at the same time, what you're always doing is calling to conversion. But, as maybe a step toward waking them up, it might not hurt occasionally to say: 'Please refrain from receiving Communion because you're not totally in good standing with the Church.' "
A spokeswoman for Mr. Martin would not comment specifically on Bishop Henry's remarks, but she said the Prime Minister is "deeply into the separation of Church and state."
"His faith is a personal matter and it is very important," Amy Butcher said. "But he also believes deeply in the Charter of Rights, and as Prime Minister, he will act to uphold all rights, including the rights of religious institutions to practise their beliefs."
One small quibble about the headline. Nobody "deserves" Communion.
He won't. Too many shepherds are themselves lambs.
Too many "shepherds" are wolf-fleeing hirelings or wolves themselves in shepherds' garb.
I am sure the vatican would support him
Seems t'me that (while it IS sin and an abomination) s-s marriage is not shattering the lives of children like molestation and harboring/abetting said molesters is.
"once suggested former prime minister Jean Chretien, also a devout Catholic, could lose his "eternal salvation""
Someone please define "devout." A person who flagrantly attacks his own religion's moral doctrines is not devout.
>>What brave words has Mister Henry gone on record with concerning himself some of his fellow employees, ... and their apparent hobbies of diddling little kids and playing "hide the perpetrator"? <<
Why do you presume Bishop Henry to be a child molestor? Do you have any basis for this shocking, scandalous accusation, or are you just such an amazing bigot that you call him one just because he is Catholic?
>>Seems t'me that (while it IS sin and an abomination) s-s marriage is not shattering the lives of children like molestation and harboring/abetting said molesters is. <<
Odd you can't see the connection between homosexual marriage and inappropriate homosexual relationships between preists and teenagers. Or do all Catholics everywhere surrender their democratic freedom because of the actions of a few homosexual perverts?
"Seems t'me that (while it IS sin and an abomination) s-s marriage is not shattering the lives of children like molestation and harboring/abetting said molesters is."
Sure it is. Perhaps not quite so obviously, yet, or in such numbers, yet, but it will if we give it the chance.
Ideology of Evil alert.
Please document for us exactly where Bishop Henry, himself, has been involved in any such activity or has knowingly protected anyone under his authority who has done so.
If you cannot, you are engaging in slander, which is a sin.
"Rights are rooted in the dignity of the human person, a dignity bestowed upon the human person by God. From this perspective there is no right to have an abortion. No Catholic can responsibly take a 'pro-choice' stand when the 'choice' in question involves the taking of innocent life. Nor is there a right of couples in same sex unions to marry. One cannot invent a meaning of sexuality to suit one's own wishes or tastes. Marriage is a union of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others."
Bishop Henry
http://www.lifeissues.org/pressreleases.htm
Martin is a 'Cafeteria Catholic' just like Kerry, Kennedy and the other 58 in Congress who hide behind the convenient mantra...'I believe in the separation of church and state'!
I do NOT presume him to be a molester - they ARE a very small percentage of the total. My post asked whether or not he had gone on the record saying he wasn't (or merely assuming a "please don't ask and I won't have to tell"-attitude). I stated no scandalous accusation, resent your use of 'bigot', and you can go shove your 'aha! catholic-bashing!' attitude up your bunghole.
I _can_ see a connnection, and i have heard of stories of BOTH boys AND girls being mishandled by priests. THIS is far more damaging to THEM than married queers that they'll probably never hear about or encounter. AND. IT. IS. A. CRIME.
And WHY are "all Catholics everywhere surrender[ing] their democratic freedom because of the actions of a few homosexual perverts"? That one needs an explanation.
Mt brave words to Him may include "Y'know, about seamole: WHY?".
I don't 'hate' the Church - I'm just very suspicious of certain of the denominations that make it up: especially the one(s) which have employees (again, few and NOT all) both mishandling children AND covering-up the crimes.
Explain the 'Judas' comment.
By my statement I was asking "has he denied committing such behavior" and "what has he to say (what is his opinion) of some of his fellow employees (who have)".
I see no proof or accusation that he HAS been involved in anything, or protected anyone - I only asked IF he has gone on record AFFIRMING that he HASN'T, and asking if he has commented on those who HAVE.
You described it as his "apparent hobby". If I asked about what you'd said concerning your apparent hobby of raping little girls, would that be just an innocent question?
has he denied committing such behavior
Have you denied beating your wife?
I see no proof or accusation that he HAS been involved in anything, or protected anyone
Fine, then you'll consider that most of us consider the operative pattern to be "innocent until proven guilty," not "guilty unless solitas can be convinced you're innocent".
And no, I don't think your apparent hobbies involve raping little girls, nor do I think Bishop Henry's involve raping boys.
Meaning: the apparent hobbies of some of his fellow employees.
Many of them have adopted policies of "don't tell if they don't have warrants" but the ones exemplifying Character and Honesty _have_ stepped to the front and affirmed their innocence (regardless of not being accused) and have spoken against those who _have_ committed crimes.
There is a big difference between "innocent until proven guilty" and "under suspicion". Courts and cops operate the same way: punishment cannot be meted out to those not yet found guilty; HOWEVER, being suspect of something based upon contact with guilty individuals and lack of evidence to the contrary IS justifiable and the personal responsibility of the individual to do what he can to help provide information to clear himself of suspicion.
If YOU were under suspicion of a crime, wouldn't YOU explain yourself and do what you could to clear suspicion? 'Innocent until proven' is a right; 'not under suspicion' isn't.
It sounds like Chrysostom maybe didn't get invited to a lot of parties.
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