Posted on 02/26/2005 7:55:59 AM PST by sionnsar
“At least three dioceses said they would continue to authorize the blessings of same-sex unions for now, despite the request for a moratorium.
“I see no reason to call a moratorium,” Orris Walker, bishop of the diocese of Long Island, told Reuters.
“If this makes people unhappy, I’m disappointed, but we have work to do and we’ll proceed … I think we’re playing games. I think the split is already there. I’m not sure anything can be done to avoid the split.”
The diocese of North Carolina and the British Columbian diocese of New Westminster also said they would maintain their practices for now.
The blessings in New Westminster, which started in 2002, were the reason the Northern Ireland meeting targeted the Canadian church. But the diocese said it would not stop at least until a synod meeting studies it again in May.
“The blessings continue at least till the synod,” diocesan spokesman Neale Adams said.
The primate of the Canadian church, Archbishop Andrew Hutchison, said he would maintain his past recommendation of a moratorium but said he personally favored such blessings. He said New Westminster had been acting within its rights and done it to advance justice.
“Unity at a price of justice is not a price they have been prepared to pay,” he said….”
Read the entire article.
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You may find more of your answer here.
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams. Statement by Michael Ingham, Bishop of New Westminster
The Anglican Church of Canada remains an integral part of the worldwide mission of the Anglican Communion. Our Primate, Andrew Hutchison, has been at the table all week in Newry, Ireland; Canadian mission partnerships, relief and development efforts, and theological education exchanges with the Provinces of the Communion all remain in place; and Canada continues to be a member of the Anglican Consultative Council in partnership with all other Provinces.
In the midst of some rather distorting reports following the Primates’ Statement today from Northern Ireland, I encourage all Anglicans to read the statement in its entirety.
In this diocese we continue to be a source of hope and encouragement to Christians all around the world, witnessed by the many messages of support still being received. I have just returned from a partnership visit to Taiwan where our Companion Diocese agreement was renewed for a further five years. The warmth and affection between our dioceses is visibly apparent.
Reports that the Communion has gone into schism over the issue of homosexuality are seriously wrong. [Huh? What reports?] The Primates have spoken about the deep desire for unity that exists throughout the church, while at the same time acknowledging the difficulties created by disagreements over the place of homosexual Christians in the life of the Church. [Nice weaselly wording there.]
They have acknowledged that proper constitutional procedures were followed in both the United Sates and Canada with respect to the recent decisions in these churches [to my knowledge, "constitutional procedures" were never in question -- only their outcome], and have called for genuine international consultations to be held on the subject of human sexuality - a call first made by the Lambeth Conference of 1978 but unheeded until now. [in other words, everything that's been done before was not "genuine"] The Constitution of the Anglican Consultative Council makes no provision for member churches to be “uninvited.” [Correct. And neither does page 43 of the 1979 BCP -- the statement is irrelevant. But you're uninvited nonetheless.]
Nor has the Archbishop of Canterbury given any indication of an intention to provoke schism in the Communion by uninviting bishops to the Lambeth Conference. [Of course not. Not yet. But keep on like this, and you'll get a little surprise.] The Primates’ call for the Canadian and American churches “to consider voluntary withdrawal” from the next three meetings from the ACC is carefully worded, and intended to appease the angriest voices in the Communion, but it should be firmly resisted by both churches. [And there you have it. Ingham is not going to change his ways one bit.] ACC is the one place where the provinces are fully represented and where the broadest consultations can and should occur.
To place the Canadian and American delegations in the position of explaining to the ACC why homosexual Christians should receive equal treatment in the church is invidious and unsatisfactory. It continues the Primates’ policy of ignoring homosexual persons themselves [Nice bit of spin there...], and places North Americans in the position of speaking for Anglicans in all parts of the world, from whom they have no mandate.
I would like to encourage all members of the Diocese of New Westminster to continue in their daily faithfulness, prayer and mission on behalf of Jesus Christ. These developments at the international level are not entirely about sexuality, but rather they reveal a struggle for the direction of the church. [Finally, some real truth!! There is such a struggle going on. And thhis is why Ingham & Griswold won't back down, because that means they've lost.] In this regard, let us continue to bear witness to the Gospel of love and compassion, remaining a church that strives to include and not exclude, and let us model mutual respect for one another in a time of changing understandings. [Well, it's clear Ingham & Griswold & Crew would like to be "changing understandings." I suspect the Global South would not.]
Dear sionnsar,
I don't know. To me, it looks like:
1. The pagans haven't been thrown out of the communion. There is no pagan-provoked schism.
2. The pagans get to carry on for the next three years with no additional penalties beyond being invited not to come to the ACC.
3. On the other hand, the orthodox have promised not to interefere with the internal workings of the pagans' provinces;
4. Leaving the orthodox within these provinces pretty much out in the cold, defenseless against the depradations of their pagan ecclesial leaders.
5. Maybe in three years, the orthodox will rally enough folks with enough gumption to throw the pagans out. Or, anger will dissipate, rationalizations will be made, "You know, it's those sex-crazed North Americans, they can't help themselves, anyway," and what nearly enough folks were hot to do today will be fewer folks in three years.
6. Finally, the pagans will beat up the orthodox with their own actions this day:
"You accepted us knowing that we were doing this, and knowing we would continue to do this.
"Even while we did all we did, openly declaring we would do it, you agreed not to interefere with us!!
"It is YOU who are changing! It is YOU who are being unreasonable!"
And some more may be persuaded.
I don't know. I hope your more optimistic view holds true.
sitetest
ping
Being disinvited to the ACC is, granted, a warning shot across the bow and little more. But did you note (did I post? -- there is a tremendous amount of stuff being posted online about this and I'm filtering heavily) how even that warning is going to be ignored? They're very likely to show up uninvited, which will just provoke things further.
Also, commentators have noted that the orthodox have only promised not to provoke their "interference" (which, as I understand it they have never done). They will still respond if called upon.
Like you I am not at all happy at this turn of events. For personal reasons, I wanted this situation resolved quickly. But that's not going to happen; this trainwreck, already in agonizingly slow motion, is now going even slower. But it seems ever more surer.
As Wannabe Newbie Anglican notes, the libs are digging themselves in deeper:
No Reason??
North American Episcolibs continue to amaze me. The ink is hardly dry on the Primates’ communiqué when bishops already say same-sex blessings will continue, that there will be no moratorium as requested by the Primates.
The response of Long Island bishop Orris Walker is especially galling: “I see no reason to call a moratorium.”
What?! The Primates of the Anglican Communion have requested a moratorium, and that’s “no reason” to call one?!?
Apostate arrogance continues.
The break is coming. I am now sure of that.
Or, to put it another way, if instead of a break there is ultimately acceptance of ECUSA's deeds, there will be no reason whatsoever to remain in the Anglican communion.
The Bishop of Quincy Offers an Early Response to the Primates Communique
Beloved in Christ,
I greet you in the Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Like so many of you I am amazed at what transpires after a Presidential Address. A one hour address is followed by two hours of analysis, with an occasional bit of accuracy. For some who have read the Primates’ Communiqué, it says less than what was hoped. Indeed, considering the fact that our Communion is made up of Primates whose primary language is not English, it would be unwise to interpret the report apart from those who have written it.
Therefore, on Saturday I will be part of a large conference call that will include about 25 bishops, a number of whom are currently in Ireland. After that conference call I will issue my own statement to the Faithful of the Diocese of Quincy. Until then it is unwise to offer anything other than a cursory opinion. It is obvious that the Primates are greatly distressed over unilateral activities of the Provinces of North America, and it is obvious that it will not be “business as usual” for the Anglican Communion.
In Christ,
Bishop K.L. Ackerman
Eighth Bishop of Quincy
"... did you note.... how even that warning is going to be ignored? They're very likely to show up uninvited, which will just provoke things further."
Exactly. Truer words were never spoken. Jan Nunley gave a clue to this yesterday (she is the spokesperson for the Episcopal News Service). She said they will "consider" withdrawing. In their arrogance, they have yet to even so much as agree to do what the Primates have requested. In my mind, there is a lot of doubt as to whether they ever will either.
"Archbishop Hutchison said, however, that although he was not surprised by the request that Canada "voluntarily withdraw" from the Council, he had argued "passionately" against it in the meeting. In the end, he said, something had to give. "There wasn't enough giving. We were trying to reconcile the irreconcilables."
http://anglicanjournal.com/extra/news.php?newsItem=2005-02-25_mns.news
"We were trying to reconcile the irreconcilables." Was that a Freudian slip?
Defenders of the Catholic Church!!
TAKE NOTICE: AS THE ANGLICANS GO SO GOES THE NOVUS ORDO!!
This has been the case and this therefore will continue to be the case. "As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be" to quote a very hauntingly, timely phrase!!
"“I see no reason to call a moratorium,” Orris Walker, bishop of the diocese of Long Island, told Reuters."
He will when there is no money left to pay his overinflated salary.
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Sounds like within 24 hours the majority of the Primates have the answer they gave the American and Canadian churches three months to answer. The arrogance and stubborness and destructiveness of many Canadian and American bishops is startling, if not totally expected. Let the schism begin!
Comment by James — 2/26/2005 @ 8:49 am
James, you sound like schism is good news and you are happy about it.
It is tragic.
Comment by fredt — 2/26/2005 @ 8:50 am
Fredt: I’m not happy about it. Just realistic. Clearly, and the early responses of bishops in Canada and American bear this out, there will be NO moratorium on any apostasy and conversely, and hopefully, no moratorium on off-shore intervention by faithful, Scriptually honest bishops. I don’t celebrate schism, but I know it when I see it.
Comment by James — 2/26/2005 @ 8:58 am
Fredt,
It’s not schism, it’s discipline, a mark of the true Church. And, yes, I am overjoyed. It means that God has had mercy on the Anglican Communion; that the AC will remain a viable option for faithful Christians.
Comment by Matt Kennedy+ — 2/26/2005 @ 9:05 am
#1 says: “Sounds like within 24 hours the majority of the Primates have the answer they gave the American and Canadian churches three months to answer” -
I don’t see anything about threemonths in the Primates’ communiuque - that was a Virtue report, n’est pas? Where do the Primates call for a response within three months? Ami I missing something - It appears to me ECUSA has three years un til Lambeth 2008 eben though suspended from ACC during that time.
Comment by Robbie Brown — 2/26/2005 @ 9:42 am
The three months was in reference to the June ACC meeting in which the American and Canadian churches will not be active members but invited to explain the innovations they have made with scriptures. Without an explanation that satisfies the primates, I believe the issue will be resolved. Does anyone believe that the Americans or Canadians will ever vote to repent or reverse their decisions. The matter, frankly, has already been decided. We’re just holding off to pull the plug.
Comment by James — 2/26/2005 @ 9:46 am
I guess I could shorten that up to: No convincing explanation in June. No Peace.
Comment by James — 2/26/2005 @ 9:50 am
#6 - I see your point on the three months. But it seems to me ECUSA is being given a homework project, to justify their actions, abn to pesnt this at ACC in June. But, after that, and not until 2008 is there anything that ocurs that will in which deliberations are held to receive ECUSA arguments. Do you think the ACC in June will take some enforcement action at that time? maybe so, hopefully so. If not, it seems to me that an orthodox parish within a liberal parish in limbo - what do we do now? And, I personally am not enthralled with the Primates recommendation regarding AEO - I’ve seen that before - as someone said, it’s the mouse asking the cat for permission. And, the Communion admits they have no power to enforce AEO within a Province, only to monitor the process.
Comment by Robbie Brown — 2/26/2005 @ 10:02 am
Dear Robbie Brown: As one who is already in an American parish under the Rwanda bishop, I too am concerned abuot the oversight issue. I guess, as I mentioned in a post elsewhere, that the already uncompromising statements from a number of American and Canadian bishops might make the whole new communique obsolete before the month is out. If a moratorium is not established and if same-sex blessings continue in North America, I can see a situation where the African primates will say, “all bets are off” and the cross boundary oversight will continue unabated. Anyway, that’s my prayer.
Comment by James — 2/26/2005 @ 10:11 am
Bp. Walker of Long Island says, “we have work to do and we’ll proceed.”
This is a common line of argument by ECUSA’s revisionist leaders: that they are busy doing God’s work and can’t let orthodox believers’ concerns distract them.
This begs the question: What work does Bp. Walker do?
He evidently:
— closes parishes and sells their buildings, even in places ripe for church-planting;
— dismisses or blocks the appointment of capable clergy, http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/index.php?p=1762;
— reinstated a priest who reportedly “participated in sexual orgies in churches while wearing religious vestments, imported young men from Brazil for sexual purposes and then ‘married’ one of them,” http://www.americananglican.org/News/News.cfm?ID=527&c=21,
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/andries.html.
Bp. Walker has been busy. But what work does he do?
Comment by Irenaeus — 2/26/2005 @ 10:15 am
Note who got the last word in the article. That’s Reuters!
What I really wonder is what happens when the North Americans show up and drop their usual load of junk science, half-baked sociology, and arrogant self-aggrandizement on the ACC. What happens when the 4th instrument of unity joins the other 3 in rejection heresy?
Comment by Ken — 2/26/2005 @ 10:15 am
Dear Ken: Then Frank will have yet another opportunity to announce that he will prayerfully consider his regret over what the rest of us the great unwashed can’t understand. He will spin it again that he is far ahead of the spiritual curve and will move on with same-sex marriage. That will drive yet another 10 percent of the church out, but many of the frozen chosen will remain for the eventual funeral. God give strength to the faithful primates to withstand the coming assault
Comment by James — 2/26/2005 @ 10:21 am
“No reason to call a moratorium?” That the Primates of the Anglican Communion have requested a moratorium is no reason? ECUSA liberal arrogance continues.
Comment by Wannabe (Newbie?) Anglican — 2/26/2005 @ 10:27 am