Pope misses Mass, says suffering helps save souls (Pope forgets the lessons of the Inquisition)

Reuters (via Drudge) ^ | 02/11/05 | Phil Stewart

[xm177e2]

VATICAN CITY, Feb 11 (Reuters) - Pope John Paul, still convalescing after 10 days in hospital, told the world's sick on Friday that their suffering was "precious", but did not deliver his message in person at a special service for sick people.

The 84-year-old Pontiff returned to the Vatican on Thursday evening after doctors decided he had recovered from an acute breathing crisis brought on by a bout of influenza.

But Vatican officials are taking no risks with his frail health and the Pope missed Friday's commemorative Mass, held to mark the day the Roman Catholic Church dedicates each year to sick people.

Instead, a senior Cardinal read the Pope's speech, which made no reference to his time in hospital.

"Your suffering is never useless, dear sick people. Moreover, it's a precious thing," the speech said. "If you bring together your suffering and pain, you can be his (God's) privileged helpers in the salvation of souls".

Besides his recent breathing problems, the Pope suffers from Parkinson's disease and severe arthritis.

He no longer walks, has difficulty speaking and his urgent admission to hospital raised fresh questions over how long he can remain head of the world's 1.1 billion Catholics.

In an apparent bid to allay fears about his health, John Paul was brought home from hospital in full public view, sitting in a brightly lit Popemobile for the five minute drive through Rome, which was broadcast live on Italian television.

To make the point that it was business as usual for the Vatican bureaucracy, the Holy See announced a flurry of appointments on Friday, including a successor to Paris Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger and posts in Mexico and Angola.

The Vatican has yet to say whether the Polish Pope will make his usual weekly blessing from his apartment windows on Sunday.

John Paul appeared at his hospital window last Sunday, speaking in a hoarse, barely audible voice that fuelled debate over whether he should resign.

Church law says a Pope can resign, but it is a rare event. The last Pope to resign willingly was Celestine V, who stepped down in 1294. Gregory XII reluctantly abdicated in 1415 when more than one Pope was reigning at the same time.

But the Pope's battle against illness and the weakness of the flesh is also seen as an inspiration by the faithful, even if the Pontiff cannot fully express himself verbally.

"The sick Pope is the icon of the suffering of humanity", Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone told ANSA news agency.

"There is a profound meaning in this event. The Pope ... shows his spiritual strength," Bertone said, adding that his struggle took on more meaning "in a society that increasingly values youth".

[dangus]

Repeating rumors from "The Atheist Foundation"? Come back when you have a source that is anything besides foaming-at-the-mouth hate mongerers.

[dangus]

I forget the new name, but the name was changed from "Inquisitor General" only in the late 1990s.

[Lady In Blue]

Thank you,rtetb for your post. I'm rather outdone right now and speechless!

[dangus]

What I can believe is that Mother Therese, forced by circumstances in India to use substandard medical equipment, would tell her patients that their experience of suffering drew them closer to Christ, to console them in their suffering and strengthen them in their faith. Have a vicious, hateful anti-Christian misunderstand rumors and spin in the worst possible light, and voila! Let's not forget that there were plenty of nationalist Hindus who would love to malign Catholic missionaries; although every Indian without exception that I've ever met in this country was remarkably peaceable, I have known people whose family members were slaughtered by nationalistic Hindu mobs in India.

It's also worth noting that even Hitchens calls such stories rumors. One would wonder why you would exerpt the rantings of a hate-crazed, left-wing atheist and post them to a religion forum, accepting them as if they were fact with greater certainty than the author himself.

[dangus]

When allegations are as unsubstantiated as Hitchens', it is difficult to refute the assertions; you cannot refute a proof that has not been offered. Instead, the only support for the claim is the reputation of the person making it. In such a case, pointing out the extreme prejudice of the accuser is not mere ad-hominem; it is refuting the only evidence provided.

I hardly would call people registering their offense "hating." I'll give you that there was one absurdly silly comment about a metaphorical sandwhich. Besides that one comment, the strongest comment made against the person who posted this slander is "You have serious problems and obviously don't understand what you are talking about." That's hardly "hate."

[ArrogantBustard]

RCBS makes some really nice reloading equipment ... I fail to comprehend your animosity toward them.

[oceanperch]

King Vanity and I have been lifting up others through our suffering in Prayers for many years.

We understand perfectly.

It gives us an important role and allows us to be part of the Catholic Church from afar.

All the Blessings are unknown to us.

Quite a few, we have ease in physical pain, no self pity, perseverance, the love of life and all that is unknown to us.

Next time you have trials or a bad flu try it, and it will put an end to your need to understanding what it all about, Alfie.

Think of the suffering Mary felt at the foot of the cross.
She took that heartache and lifted up others with what pained her heart.
St. Kolbe suffered most of his life with chronic illness and through lifting up others through his suffering enabled him to keep the presses rolling.

It is quite silly to debate this topic when each one of you can do this and there you will find the answer and be humbled and filled with the peace of the Holy Spirit.

It is an awesome gift to give to others whom you lift up.

[Kolokotronis]

"Think of the suffering Mary felt at the foot of the cross.
She took that heartache and lifted up others with what pained her heart."

My father-in-law, much loved and very old, died last year during Great Lent. During his last illness and after his death, my wife found great comfort in going three evenings a week to our Orthodox parish where as part of our Lenten cycle, the Akathist Hymn, praises to the Most Holy Mother of God, were chanted. She told me she got great comfort there chanting to Panagia because she knew that she had suffered so much at the foot of the Cross watching her Son die an agonizing death and that she understood her pain in watching her father die. She said it was as if she could share her grief with the Theotokos. That Great Lent brought my wife very, very close to the Blessed Virgin, through suffering.

[T.L.Sink]

I disagree with Hitchen's anti-religious views but
simply asserted that he is an independent thinker who
writes with great wit and irony - and usually can support
his assertions, at least to his own satisfaction. Relative
to my remark about vituperative ad homnem attacks, I was
only commenting on what I SAW in some postings:
(1) "yours is a pitiful and hateful little mind"
(2) "...your ignorance and spite."
(3) "Have you been drinking?"
(4) " your post is a big hunk of idiot meat"

I could go on but you get the picture. If this isn't
ad hominem and vituperative, I'll have to check the
dictionary. I'm just saying this sort of personal,
insulting attack is not a substitute for rational
argumentation. And we only belittle ourselves - not
others - when we so speak.

[dcnd9]

He is speaking to 'how' we suffer albeit physical or emotional. Whether we offer up those trying moments with humility drawing ourselves closer to God. It by no means doesn't imply you don't receive normal medical help when needed. And the Catholic hospitals do not withhold medications.

Mel Gibson's the Passion Of The Christ portrayed the beauty in suffereing with Christ nailed to the cross and dying for us. That is love.

[OLD REGGIE]

I forget the new name, but the name was changed from "Inquisitor General" only in the late 1990s.

I believe the office you are looking for is Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

[escapefromboston]

Good point, but I fail too see how it has to do with my comment. I was not making an ad hominem vituperative attacks I was pointing out that his comment was embarrassing. It wasn't logical it wasn't even entertaining it was embarrassing. I felt bad for xm because of his comments, not for what he believes but how he chose to voice his opinion.

While Hitches is a fine writer he isn't an independent thinker. His bigotry shows a mind enslaved by hatred.

[xm177e2]

I want to add that I don't think I'm anti-Catholic. I basically like the Pope. He stood with Reagan against Communism and he's said evolution is not incompatible with Christianity. He could be stronger about Iraqi democracy and not undermine Israel so much, but who's perfect? Certainly no human religious or political leader. (sad as it is, even I might not be...)

I'm just concerned about the implications that a pro-pain philosophy might have.

[AAABEST]

I'm just concerned about the implications that a pro-pain philosophy might have.

Life is pain. Love and sacrifice is suffering, this is an essential element of Christ's message to us.

Every act of love or giving requires some degree of sacrifice or pain. From a small tithing on Sunday to giving your life for your brethren.

Sending a child you love through college requires sacrifice. Forgiving someone who hurt you is difficult as is not getting even with an enemy. The ancient Israelites sacrificed their livestock (wealth) to God to show their love and trust. A father sacrifices and suffers for his family. Our Lord suffered for us. Volunteers sacrifice time.

Real love (not the mushy type) and giving requires pain. Suffering can be quite sanctifying.

[donbosco74]

That would be Ratzinger, and he heads up the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. But he isn't doing much to defend the Faith with Doctrine for the Congregation. But what do you expect under diabolical disorientation? Up is down and in is out, okay? No, kayo. Wait. Yes is no...

[annalex]

I heard nothing but good about Ratzinger.

But Inquisitor he is not. In the past, a special office would be set by the Pope to sit in judgement of the clergy of a particular region, exact confession, determine penance and call for conversion. So we know them as Venetian Inquisition, Albigensian Inquisition, Spanish Inquisition, etc. Each would employ methods compatible with the jurisprudence of the time and locale. That system, despite widespread ignorance about it today, worked well.

In America we have wholesale refusal to preach on matters of great concern to the Vatican: contraception, abortion, dissolution of Christian marriage. The Liturgy is systematically abused, -- not through inadvertence but wilfully. Of roughly a 100 bishops 6 had the good sense to advise against offering communion to pro-abortion "Catholic" politicians, and that was after the matter was pressed by the laity. This is at the time when the clergy's reputation has already suffered when pederasty among the priests was exposed. I don't want a cardinal attempting to beat sense into American clergy from Rome; I want a canon law prosecutor installed in each American bishopric who would make wayward priests answer specific questions of doctrine, opinion and behavior, and defrock the impostors.

[AAABEST]

Of roughly a 100 bishops 6 had the good sense to advise against offering communion to pro-abortion "Catholic" politicians...

It's actually worse than that. The USCCB is comprised of 186 bishops. The total number of Catholic bishops running around the U.S. is about 275 I believe.

By my calculations only 2.18% of the American episcopate took a stand to protect life. These are the leaders we are forced to suffer with.

[OLD REGGIE]

I heard nothing but good about Ratzinger. But Inquisitor he is not

The Office still exists. The name has changed. Cardinal Ratzinger is the chief honcho.

What he has done with the office is another story.

[donbosco74]

"In America we have wholesale refusal [among Newchurch parish priests] to preach on matters [that SHOULD BE] of great concern to the Vatican: contraception, abortion, dissolution of Christian marriage."

You say some things but omit things "that should be" included. You ought to drop in to some independent Traditional Latin Masses now and then. You will discover that these things ARE preached, if you know where to go so you aren't wasting your time on the irsatz version.

And please beware: what you see coming out of the Vatican in WORDS has no value when there is no TEETH in it. Ever since Vatican II there have been lofty statements, engineered to placate the Catholic sense of those who really want to believe everything will be okay, but no penalties are attached to the words. Nobody will ever be brought to correction when they will not suffer consequences. The only ones punished are those who would be too traditional. Diabolical disorientation again. "D2" for short.

[escapefromboston]

You are not concerned about the Pope's "pro-pain" philosophy. You seem unable to grasp the simple concept of what the Pope meant when he was discussing pain. Though I suspect you know exactly what he meant you just wanted to be "clever" and bash the Pope and Catholics.
You want to add that you are not Anti-Catholic and that you "basically" like the Pope? Next thing you are going to say is "Some of my best friends are Popes".

You are a bigot. You are a bigot not because you disagree with the Pope or that you dislike Christianity but because your hatred as gone to such an extreme point that it blinds you to rational thought. People can disagree on a number of important subjects however that doesn't mean you have to act like a snotty teenager. You can keep what ever view point you want though I suggest you grow up and act like an adult.