Posted on 02/06/2005 11:19:42 AM PST by newheart
A church property bill before the Virginia Senate, if passed, could set off massive defections of churches from their denominations with implications for other states, and repercussions for several Episcopal dioceses currently embroiled in property disputes.
Virginia State legislator William C. Mims, who is himself an Episcopalian, attorney and active in church law and church property issues, wants to give local congregations the power to break away from their national denominations, many of whom are deeply divided over theological and moral issues especially the ordination of avowed homosexuals to the priesthood and gay civil unions. The bill is in its second reading in the senate.
(Excerpt) Read more at virtueonline.org ...
In this particular case, it will help the good guys, but I am uncomfortable with the state interfering with internal governance issues of religious bodies. It seems unconstitutional to me.
I share your reluctance. When the government gets invovled there are strings. it then almost becomes a matter of you have this or that right or privilege because the governement granted it to you. That is also why I have serious reservations about the state 'defining' marriage--through constitutional ammendment or otherwise.
"It seems unconstitutional to me."
There have been problems with stuff like this before. I think in NY State it was recently determined that the state can no longer define what food is Kosher. I don't remember how this came to be litigated (again, I'm sure it was again) but that was the decision.
However, this involves real property, so there may be a place for the gov't here.
I just hope the good guys win in the ECUSA, my RC heart goes out to them all.
Or it could be seen as the Virginia senate recognizing that ECUSA stopped being a governing entity long ago and so is making it official.
Who was it that said, "It's the property, stupid."?
Yep, great minds and all.
Thank you for your warmhearted sentiments, too, FRiend.
If this happens, we will see a tidal change in our church re the liberal stances.
Or we will have two distinct churches with one for the liberal anything is okay but the the bible and one for the rest of us.
"Senate Democrats as a block voted against it, they see it as a church/state issue and discriminatory against gays," said Chaplow.
Such a bill is, of course, anathema to liberal and revisionist bishops who see holding onto the properties as almost a sacred trust and sacrosanct, a way to push their pansexual agenda unhindered without fear of losing the church property even if the priest and parish, in good conscience, cannot abide their diocesan or national church's decisions in such moral matters.
Most folks do not realize is that the entire issue is about the control of hundreds of millions of dollars, both in property and in holdings.
Many ECUSA members need to wake up. Complacent Americans have bought the lie that this will all just blow over.
Where church members are mistaken is that they believe that ECUSA liberals will actually care if the Anglican Communion breaks up.Following such a schism, which they have
instigated, they can proceed to wallow in the lucre.
That this church, once so mighty and influential shall wreck its self on the shoals of human sexuality is so pathetic.
However, it is not alone, the Roman Catholic Church has suffered greatly from the same disorder.
>> In this particular case, it will help the good guys, but I am uncomfortable with the state interfering with internal governance issues of religious bodies. <<
It simply needs to be worded carefully. The largest churches in Virginia pre-date the ECUSA, and the ECUSA is using a legal loophole to maintain jurisdiction over them. This eliminates the loophole. The schism has occurred, and it is the ECUSA which has left the Anglican church. But the ECUSA is trying to claim ownership of Anglican churches which entered into covenant with the ECUSA, wit the expectation that the ECUSA would remain a Christian denomination.
If worded correctly, it should not affect churches which were founded by their religious bodies. The Catholic Church, for instance, very plainly owns the parishes. Less heirarchical churches are usually not incorporated as parts of dioceses anyway.
In the case of NYS, I would think that the Jewish bodies simply need to get together, trademark their own Kosher symbol, and create their own review panel.
Unconstitutional. Churches make their own rules.
The only solution is move or buy out.
Does exemption from taxes for churches play into this?
I shouldn't think that it would. In spite of the fact that most churches have real estate value & endowments, they are for all intents & purposes non-profit organizations and not subject to taxation. It doesn't really have to do with the fact that they're churches. It is because they are non-profit orgs., like Boy Scouts, Humane Societies, & (if I'm not mistaken) the ACLU.
Thanks.
I think you're right. It's contractual. Lawsuits filed in September, 2004, by the Diocese of Los Angeles against three congregations attempting to leave shows that bishops will speed to court over it.
Now dangus understands. Well put! I am hoping that the ACC,ACN and like minded parishes/diocese continue to position themselves as the true Anglican mission in the US. If they continue to do so, they will have a leg to stand on. Timz a gettin close. There's gonna be lots more property disputes. My guess, ECUSA will get bogged down in property they cannot afford. I hope so! God works in strange but miraculous ways.
>> Unconstitutional. Churches make their own rules. <<
It's not the church rules that are at issue: The Anglican church sides with Truro and Falls Church. What's at issue is the secular incorporation of the churches; the ECUSA is trying to claim ownership, using secular laws, of churches which do not belong to it. All the state of Virginia is doing is trying to clarify its own laws where they are somewhat murky.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.