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To: beavus; Reeses

If there is no such thing as randomness then there can be no free will - because unpredictable living things will create randomness. So then the universe is predetermined.

That is why I ask whether randomness and free will are one and the same... or contribute to each other, or have a common microscopic anscestor, or are related etc...


101 posted on 01/25/2005 3:03:50 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/blackconservatism.htm)
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To: traviskicks
There are three important points:

(1) Regardless of what theories people have regarding the existence of free will, it appears as though it exists.

(2) Regardless of what theories people have regarding the existence of randomness, it appears as though it exists.

(3) There is empirical evidence that free will and randomness do exist, and there is no logical proof that free will and randomness do not exist.

Determinists think they have deduced that randomness and free will do not exist. However, those arguments are not tautologies and therefore are not conclusive, though obviously they are strong enough to persuade determinists.

The appearance of free will and randomness qualify as empirical evidence, and thus will remain open to question until they are observed to be false (e.g. the apparent random events are explained deterministically). They can never be proven (in the mathematical sense) to exist.

Almost all meaningful knowledge of the world is evidence-dependent. Thus, the existence of randomness in the empirical world can never be more certain than our most certain observations.

So, the free will-determinism debate may never advance any futher.

There is speculation that true randomness, as apparently seen in certain quantum phenomena, may be the basis of free will.

102 posted on 01/25/2005 4:32:20 PM PST by beavus
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To: traviskicks

One question that I haven't heard answered is, that if Christ is the only key to heaven, then what happened to all those before Him?

I believe I have heard some kind of dogma of Christ descending to hell and taking the keys of death away from lucifer during the three days before the resurection. That he set the captives free. I believe there are many theories on this, such as we wait in the grave until resurrection. I believe in reincarnation however. I think this life is a school. My rationale is that an ALL merciful, ALL loving, INFINITELY forgiving father, would give His own children INFINITE chances to figure out that all is one, and one is all. To me hell is a state of mind allowing you to be trapped in the material world, under the chains and slavery of selfish sin. It is only eternal if we do not repent, and overcome sin through the sacrifice of Christ, and repeat his example spiritually by crucifying the selfish self, and ressurecting the God within. Those who lived before Christ are judged by different standards than those who lived during and after Him.


109 posted on 01/26/2005 5:20:09 AM PST by Jay777 (Gen. Tommy Franks for President in 08)
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To: traviskicks

For some interesting research look into the Essenes. This was a sect of Judaism that many believed Jesus was from. They taught baptism instead of animal sacrifice. The other two sects are more well known, the sadducies and the pharisees. Many believe the Gospels are told from the view point of the essenes. Also look into the history of the three magi, the tree of life in the kabbalah, and Christian mysticism. An interesting book to read is the Aquarian Gospel.


110 posted on 01/26/2005 5:25:29 AM PST by Jay777 (Gen. Tommy Franks for President in 08)
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