Jacob ARMINIUS:

IMARC (Independent Methodist Arminian Resource Center) ^ | Dr. Vic Reasoner

[Gamecock]

All Christians become Calvinists when they die. Tell me something I don't know.

As far as the rest of his life, I can bring a jackass into my home and call it a human being, but that doesn't make it so.

[fortheDeclaration]

Excellent post.

Thanks.

[xzins]

Your welcome.

[xzins]

You're welcome.

[xzins]

You can start with a jackass in your house, but you can't say later that it's a donkey and always has been one.

He began as a calvinist and presbyterian.

But, then again, I am a calvinist in the arminian tradition. He, however, REJECTED arminianism.

[Frumanchu]

I think this one is much better suited.

[xzins]

It is our roots.

Calvinists from the arminian tradition, through Arminius, do go back to Geneva. It appears that Arminius' major disagreement was over supralapsarianism. As near as I can tell, Arminius held Calvin in proper esteem. He must certainly have thought that Calvin had not been a supra. Interestingly, this supralapsarianism appears to be something Arminius got from Theodore Beza that Arminius rejected.

Therefore, Arminius' branch of calvinism and the dortist calvinists both go back to geneva. Both were influenced by Beza; one for and one against.

[Frumanchu]

Therefore, Arminius' branch of calvinism and the dortist calvinists both go back to geneva.

Arminius' "branch of Calvinism" died with Arminius. I've already given you evidence from his own words that he was NOT in agreement with the University of Leyden or with the Dutch Reformed church on a major point of Reformed soteriology.

I also presented the evidence that he only agreed with the Belgic Confession when he changed the wording in such a way as to significantly alter the meaning of the text.

That Arminius "held Calvin in proper esteem" does not therefore make him a Calvinist.

[xzins]

And I gave you direction to where Arminius considered the major and the unified confessions, and compared them with the positions of other reformers, even in other lands, and was able to demonstrate compatibility.

It is obvious that he was kept at Leyden in a major theological seat of calvinism. It can rightly be called "calvinism from the arminian tradition."

You are calvinist from the dortic tradition ... which came AFTER this controversy. Even his conviction came after his death and was engineered by dortists.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

ARMINIAN PROPAGANDA: "Arminianism reintroduced the spirit of tolerance to the Church. The early Arminians were well educated and held strong convictions, but they displayed a different spirit. They had no animosity toward those who disagreed with them; they only asked that their views be permitted to exist.

THE TRUTH ABOUT ARMINIANISM -- in his own words:
Jacob Arminius; his teachings on Politics, Religion, and the Sword of the State

• The State is the Absolute Sovereign over all Natural and Spiritual affairs of Man:
  The end of the institution of magistracy, is the good of the whole, and of each individual of which it is composed, both an animal [or natural] good, "that they may lead quiet and peaceable lives;" and a spiritual good, that they may live in this world, to God, and may in heaven enjoy that good, to the glory of God who is its author. For since man, according to his two-fold life, (that is, the animal and the spiritual,) stands in need of each kind of good, and is, by nature of the image of God, capable of both kinds; since two collateral powers cannot stand, and since animal good is directed to that which is spiritual, and animal life is subordinate to that which is spiritual, it is unlawful to divide those two benefits, and to separate their joint superintendence, either in reality or by the administration of the supreme authority; for, if the animal life and its good become the only objects of solicitude, such an administration is that of cattle. ~~ (Public Disputations, Disputation 25, “On Magistracy”, James Arminius)

• All Authority under Heaven, concerning both Natural and Spiritual matters, is concentrated in the Absolute Power of the State
  The chief magistrate is not correctly denominated political or secular, because those epithets are opposed to the ecclesiastical and spiritual power. In the hands and at the disposal of the chief magistrate is placed, under God, the supreme and sovereign power of caring and providing for his subjects, and of governing them, with respect to animal and spiritual life. ~~ (Certain Articles, Article 28, “On Magistracy”, James Arminius)

• It is the sole and absolute duty of the State to enforce both Civil and Religious Rule, and to enact all laws both civil and ecclesiastical, and to eradicate all Evil from society.
  The matter, of which this administration consists, are the acts necessary to produce that end. These actions, we comprehend in the three following classes: The first is Legislation, under which we also comprise the care of the moral law, according to both tables, and the enacting of subordinate laws with respect to places, times and persons, by which laws, provision may be the better made for the observance of that immovable law, and the various societies, being restricted to certain relations, may be the more correctly governed; that is, ecclesiastical, civil, scholastic and domestic associations. The second contains the vocation to delegated offices or duties, and the oversight of all actions and things which are necessary to the whole society. The third is either the eradication of all evils out of the society, if they be internal, or the warding of them off, if they be external, even with war, if that be necessary, and the safety of society should require it. ~~ (Public Disputations, Disputation 25, “On Magistracy”, James Arminius)

• All Authority over the Christian Church is concentrated in the Absolute Power of the State
  The care of religion has been committed by God to the chief magistrate, more than to priests and to ecclesiastical persons. ~~ (Certain Articles, Article 28, “On Magistracy”, James Arminius)

  Because this power is pre-eminent, we assert that every soul is subject to it by divine right, whether he be a layman or a clergyman, a deacon, priest, or bishop, an archbishop, cardinal, or patriarch, or even the Roman pontiff himself; so that it is the duty of every one to obey the commands of the magistrate, to acknowledge his tribunal, to await the sentence, and to submit to the punishment which he may award. ~~ (Public Disputations, Disputation 25, “On Magistracy”, James Arminius)

• The Utter Subjection of All Human Life, whether natural or spiritual, to the Dictates of the Absolute State should be "terrified and compelled" by the Power of the Sword:
  The form is the power itself, according to which these functions themselves are discharged, with an authority that is subject to God alone, and pre-eminently above whatever is human; for this inspires spirit and life, and gives efficacy to these functions. It is enunciated "power by right of the sword," by which the good may be defended, and the bad terrified, restrained and punished, and all men compelled to perform their prescribed duties. To this power, as supreme, belongs the authority of demanding, from those under subjection, tribute, custom, and other burdens. These resemble the sinews, by which the authority and power necessary for these functions, are held together and established. ~~ (Public Disputations, Disputation 25, “On Magistracy”, James Arminius)

In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mount Doom, the dark lord Satan forged in secret the Master Heresy Arminianism, to control all others. And into this Heresy he poured his cruelty, his malice, and his will to dominate all life. One Heresy to rule them all.... One Heresy to find them. One Heresy to bring them all... and in the darkness, Bind them.

If the joint verdict of Arminius himself, and of his English proselyte Hoord, will not turn the scale, let us add the testimony of a professed Jesuit, by way of making up full weight. When archbishop Laud's papers were examined, a letter was found among them, thus endorsed with that prelate's own hand: "March, 1628. A Jesuit's Letter, sent to the Rector at Bruxels, about the ensuing Parliament." The design of this letter was to give the Superior of the Jesuits, then resident at Brussels, an account of the posture of civil and ecclesiastical affairs in England; an extract from it I shall here subjoin: "Father Rector, let not the damp of astonishment seize upon your ardent and zealous soul, in apprehending the sodaine and unexpected calling of a Parliament. We have now many strings to our bow. We have planted that soveraigne drugge Arminianisme, which we hope will purge the Protestants from their heresie; and it flourisheth and beares fruit in due season. For the better prevention of the Puritanes, the Arminians have already locked up the Duke's (of Buckingham) eares; and we have those of our owne religion, which stand continually at the Duke's chamber, to see who goes in and out: we cannot be too circumspect and carefull in this regard. I am, at this time, transported with joy, to see how happily all instruments and means, as well great as lesser, co-operate unto our purposes. But, to return unto the maine fabricke: -- OUR FOUNDATION IS ARMINIANISME. The Arminians and projectors, as it appeares in the premises, affect mutation. This we second and enforce by probable arguments." ~~ Augustus Toplady

[P-Marlowe]

Its kind of a moot point OP. Arminius believed Romans 13 was God's will and the Calvinists believe that EVERYTHING is God's will. So, whether you are a Calvinist or an Arminian you would have to believe that since all State Power is granted by the sovereignty of God and that the Church is subject to the power of the State, that Arminius' position (which I don't agree with BTW) is perfectly scriptural and perfectly consistent with a literal rendering of Romans 13.

Do you not believe that Romans 13 puts the Sovereignty of the State above the Sovereignty of the Church? Is not the church (the body of Christ) ordered to be subject to the Authority of the State? Is there any power that the state has that has not been specifically ordained by God?

Show a little consistency here OP. Arminius was just being too much of a Calvinist.

[RnMomof7]

Show a little consistency here OP. Arminius was just being too much of a Calvinist.

You know when I read things like this I wonder why it is being posted.

Is it spiritual ignorance? Is it doctrinal ignorance or is it mocking or is it baiting?

The fact that a doctrinal position exists in opposition to Calvinism, developed by said man, that is called Armininism proves the fallacy of the point.

What church rolls he was on officially is unimportant.

I, and many Protestant/non Catholic posters on FR were raised Catholics. We were baptized and confirmed in "the church" and are still on the "official" church rolls. The fact that Catholics and Protestants hold some doctrines in common does not mean we are still Catholic. You know that Marlowe , so we have to wonder if your purpose is to bait the GRPL and get a few more banned

The need to eliminate the "enemy " only points to a lack of conviction and the inability to take the doctrine on based on scripture.

[Corin Stormhands]

In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mount Doom, the dark lord Satan forged in secret the Master Heresy Arminianism, to control all others. And into this Heresy he poured his cruelty, his malice, and his will to dominate all life. One Heresy to rule them all.... One Heresy to find them. One Heresy to bring them all... and in the darkness, Bind them.

The good Catholic Professor Tolkien and the man he lead to Christ, C.S. Lewis would disagree with your distortions both of Tolkien's work and Arminianism.

Sorry you can't find a decent Calvinist to plagiarize.

[P-Marlowe]

What?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

On a thread started by a Calvinist you post a marquee graphic stating you're no longer posting to that thread; then that thread gets pulled; then you return to a thread on the same topic only this time started by an Arminian and ping me to your post.

Thanks awfully, but you needn't bother.

YOU WANT THE TRUTH?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Arminius was just being too much of a Calvinist.

Stick to defining Arminians. You get the Calvinist definitions wrong every time. While I realize your comments now are directed at the legalism of Romans 13, I see your problem in a broader context.

ALL men commit sins worth burning for. ALL men suffer under the imputed sins of Adam. ALL men are as Adam was, fallen and dead to God and goodness.

Anyone who actually WANTS to be among the elect and THUS has Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and THUS lives a life of fruitful righteousness does so BECAUSE God has FIRST regenerated his cold stone heart and is most likely among the elect.

There's no one running around the planet, marlowe, who has Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and who, by the grace of God, is wanting to lead a righteous life, who is saying "Darn, why wasn't I picked?" Get it? If you have faith, you WERE picked -- from before the foundation of the world and through NOTHING in your worthless, sorry, son-of-Adam being.

IMO, Arminians have problems with the "tense" of things. First regeneration (because God saves, not man) and then man believes (faith is a supernatural gift and not a human decision.)

Arminius was clearly a counter-Reformer. Salvation by God alone vs. salvation by God and man/church.

God does not sin, marlowe. But ALL things work according to His will to accomplish His perfect purpose. This apparent yet divine paradox is part and parcel of the faith which we were given by His ordination.

You continue to stumble on this paradox and cannot seem to understand it. As God wills. It's clear to me and every other Reformed believer...by the grace of God alone.

Engraved on the Reformation Memorial in Geneva is the following: "After darkness, light." Illumination is not accomplished by man. All light is a gift from God.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You were pinged last night by me only in response to pings from you.

All my posts are stationary because someone on FR once explained that marquee posts are obnoxious.

[jude24]

Arminius was clearly a counter-Reformer. Salvation by God alone vs. salvation by God and man/church.

Not really. The Council of Trent had happened long before Arminius. The Reformation had settled into an uneasy stasis by this point, which would be solidified in 1648 by the Peace of Westphalia after the Thirty Years' War. But the Counter-Reformation had long since fizzled.

[RnMomof7]

Not really. The Council of Trent had happened long before Arminius. The Reformation had settled into an uneasy stasis by this point, which would be solidified in 1648 by the Peace of Westphalia after the Thirty Years' War. But the Counter-Reformation had long since fizzled

Arminius and Wesley WERE THE COUNTER REFORMATION