Posted on 01/07/2005 7:47:31 PM PST by DouglasKC
No defense? That's what I thought.
Rational defense against invicinble ignorance is an oxymoron. You wouldn't know, though.
Time to set the "Halachic" expert straight. Torah is binding. Interpretations of Torah are not. You take one interpretation of "Talmud" and impune all of Judaism. The Talmud is the Babylonian and Jerusalem Mishnahs along with Gemara (interpretations of Mishna). Newsflash: These interpretations do not have to agree. Nor do the interpretations of the interpretations. Such as the many writings of interpretations post-Talmud; Maimonides' Mishnah Torah, Shulchan Aruch, Midrash, Zohar, Siddur, Machzor, Haggadah, and the many written Responsa liturature. You don't just take a certain Jewish writing and call it "Halachic". What's "Halachic" for one, isn't necessarily "Halachic" for another.
Trust me. You would recognize a rational anything thru all the bigotry.
wouldn't. excuse me.
Saying nothing is binding but the Torah is like saying, nothing the Church says is binding but the Bible. People tend to listen to authority, and I don't think rabbis make frivolous statements. Halacha is derived from the Thorah, and many a rabbi will tell you that these pronouncements are in agreement with it. You can take up your issues of expertise to the source, which I included.
Same old blather that Constantinian Church teaches...which is NOT consistent with the OT and the message of Jesus. The OT and Jesus repeatedly tell us to be right with God, we must REPENT. Repentance, and following God's law makes us right with God. It's plain, simple, and easy to understand. No mystery.
RE: Judaism does not know proselytism.
Are you serious? Number one, Jews don't feel the need to proselytize because they believe the good of all nations are favored by God (perhaps a safe excuse (?) considering their history of persecution, suffering, and genocide) . Number 2...looking all the way back to the early Constantinian church, when do you suggest might have been an opportune ("safe") time for them to ATTEMPT to proselytize (had they believed it to be right) ...during the crusades perhaps...or maybe in the early 1940's? C'mon Kosta, you can't be serious.
I'm not sure what your motive is in listing the "Halachic pronouncements". This is unfamiliar territory to me...so difficult to comment on it. Interesting though, that you bring up some "pronouncements" that acted as "guidelines taught by people of influence", yet.... you, IMO, seem indifferent/defensive to the systematic persecution perpetrated on the Jews. In the grand scheme of things, those "words" are but a speck of dust on the ass of an elephant. You shall know them by their fruits.
Hate and intolerance is a human quality -- passions that lead to the death of the soul, which is why all humanity is in need of salvation.
Hate and intolerance is a human quality -- passions that lead to the death of the soul, which is why all humanity is in need of REPENTANCE.
I have no idea what you're talking about or why you've gone into a whole explanation about what some Jews believe. I've been trying to tell you that some Jews, and especially the Jews of Christ's time DID NOT interpret scripture correctly. They added their own laws and regulations. You're answer seems to be that they "based" them on scripture so scripture must be wrong. Well Christianity is also based on the same scripture so must it also be wrong?
Anyone who claims to be a Christian but believes he must keep the laws listed in the first five books of the Bible has been led astray.
You are the one who defines your church by the law and not by Grace. From a Christian perspective, that is not so.
Judaism does not require faith in order for someone to be acceptable to God. Christianity does. Your pick.
Number one, Jews don't feel the need to proselytize because they believe the good of all nations are favored by God
The good of all nations? Which, Gentiles? The non-Adams? The "others?" If they wanted to preach goodness of God to other nations, they sure had plenty of opportunity in the last 6,000 years or so.
Motive? it's always that suspicious motive that comes up, when nothing else can be said. My motive was to show that everyone has extreme views and, given the opporutnity, will use them because human nature is such, rotten and fallen, proud and arrogant. They may be a speck of dust "on the ass of an elephant" because, you will remember, God didn't pick the biggest, so it's all proportional but still human nonetheless. Human nature is fallen regardless how big they are.
Since you are not a Christian, what faith do you uphold?
On the unregenerate (given to the Jews before Christ) .
Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
Romans 13:1,4 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities...for he is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
1 Timothy 1:8-10 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine...
The law deals with sin. The law makes us aware of our condition and our need for Savior.
"because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."
Yes. A Rabbi's interpretation of "Halacha" is derived from the Torah. Brilliant.
What you mean are "selected" rabbinic interpretations. Selected by you of course. They're all public knowledge. Because you discovered a portion of Mishnah doesn't mean they're trying to hide anything. You might wanna try letting a Jew actually define what a Jew is. Afterall, you get to define what an Orthodox is.
It's time for your medication.
No, you poor thing, Wikipedia selected it for me as referenced under "Jews and Gentiles."
Bye, bye now.
Why? Because as you hinted earlier, no human can fulfill the law perfectly. Without a Savior, everyone under the law is cursed.
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