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Jesus' Teaching on God's Law
Jesus Christ: The Real Story ^ | 2004 | Various

Posted on 01/07/2005 7:47:31 PM PST by DouglasKC

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To: kosta50
You are one very sick puppy, IMHO.

No defense? That's what I thought.

181 posted on 01/15/2005 9:00:12 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Rational defense against invicinble ignorance is an oxymoron. You wouldn't know, though.


182 posted on 01/15/2005 9:33:13 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Time to set the "Halachic" expert straight. Torah is binding. Interpretations of Torah are not. You take one interpretation of "Talmud" and impune all of Judaism. The Talmud is the Babylonian and Jerusalem Mishnahs along with Gemara (interpretations of Mishna). Newsflash: These interpretations do not have to agree. Nor do the interpretations of the interpretations. Such as the many writings of interpretations post-Talmud; Maimonides' Mishnah Torah, Shulchan Aruch, Midrash, Zohar, Siddur, Machzor, Haggadah, and the many written Responsa liturature. You don't just take a certain Jewish writing and call it "Halachic". What's "Halachic" for one, isn't necessarily "Halachic" for another.


183 posted on 01/15/2005 9:50:35 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: kosta50
Rational defense against invicinble ignorance is an oxymoron. You wouldn't know, though.

Trust me. You would recognize a rational anything thru all the bigotry.

184 posted on 01/15/2005 9:54:11 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: kosta50

wouldn't. excuse me.


185 posted on 01/15/2005 9:54:41 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
I posted what is public knowledge. I also asked the readers to read rabbinic interpretations before jumping to any conclusions.

Saying nothing is binding but the Torah is like saying, nothing the Church says is binding but the Bible. People tend to listen to authority, and I don't think rabbis make frivolous statements. Halacha is derived from the Thorah, and many a rabbi will tell you that these pronouncements are in agreement with it. You can take up your issues of expertise to the source, which I included.

186 posted on 01/15/2005 11:07:32 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
RE:"Mom already explained why it is impossible to make oneself righteous by the law -- for to do so one has to obey it perfectly and no one, given our nature, can do it."

Same old blather that Constantinian Church teaches...which is NOT consistent with the OT and the message of Jesus. The OT and Jesus repeatedly tell us to be right with God, we must REPENT. Repentance, and following God's law makes us right with God. It's plain, simple, and easy to understand. No mystery.

RE: Judaism does not know proselytism.

Are you serious? Number one, Jews don't feel the need to proselytize because they believe the good of all nations are favored by God (perhaps a safe excuse (?) considering their history of persecution, suffering, and genocide) . Number 2...looking all the way back to the early Constantinian church, when do you suggest might have been an opportune ("safe") time for them to ATTEMPT to proselytize (had they believed it to be right) ...during the crusades perhaps...or maybe in the early 1940's? C'mon Kosta, you can't be serious.

I'm not sure what your motive is in listing the "Halachic pronouncements". This is unfamiliar territory to me...so difficult to comment on it. Interesting though, that you bring up some "pronouncements" that acted as "guidelines taught by people of influence", yet.... you, IMO, seem indifferent/defensive to the systematic persecution perpetrated on the Jews. In the grand scheme of things, those "words" are but a speck of dust on the ass of an elephant. You shall know them by their fruits.

Hate and intolerance is a human quality -- passions that lead to the death of the soul, which is why all humanity is in need of salvation.

Hate and intolerance is a human quality -- passions that lead to the death of the soul, which is why all humanity is in need of REPENTANCE.

187 posted on 01/15/2005 11:30:49 PM PST by 1 spark (see my links)
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To: kosta50
The Jewish Law or Halacha is derived from the Scripture (Torah), based on long and exhaustive rabbinical interpretations of God's laws. Mom already explained why it is impossible to make oneself righteous by the law -- for to do so one has to obey it perfectly and no one, given our nature, can do it.

I have no idea what you're talking about or why you've gone into a whole explanation about what some Jews believe. I've been trying to tell you that some Jews, and especially the Jews of Christ's time DID NOT interpret scripture correctly. They added their own laws and regulations. You're answer seems to be that they "based" them on scripture so scripture must be wrong. Well Christianity is also based on the same scripture so must it also be wrong?

188 posted on 01/15/2005 11:31:55 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

Anyone who claims to be a Christian but believes he must keep the laws listed in the first five books of the Bible has been led astray.


189 posted on 01/15/2005 11:42:27 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: DouglasKC
Of course, according to you, the rabbis who spent their entire lives studying the Scriputres just didn't get it right -- until you came along with your gnostic knowledge. You keep saying they added, and they say what was added is already there and in agreement with the Torah. Somehow, I am willing to bet that they know what they are talking about.

You are the one who defines your church by the law and not by Grace. From a Christian perspective, that is not so.

190 posted on 01/15/2005 11:51:20 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: 1 spark
Okay, so the so-called "Constatinian" Church teaches that one is made righteous by Grace and not by law. If you believe, you will follow God's laws out of love for God, not because you "have to." If you truly love God you will repent for doing that which is wrong. It all comes down to faith. Your salvation is from God, not from your works. God saves people by His mercy. Nothing you do or say, or pay or pray can earn you that Grace. It's a gift.

Judaism does not require faith in order for someone to be acceptable to God. Christianity does. Your pick.

Number one, Jews don't feel the need to proselytize because they believe the good of all nations are favored by God

The good of all nations? Which, Gentiles? The non-Adams? The "others?" If they wanted to preach goodness of God to other nations, they sure had plenty of opportunity in the last 6,000 years or so.

Motive? it's always that suspicious motive that comes up, when nothing else can be said. My motive was to show that everyone has extreme views and, given the opporutnity, will use them because human nature is such, rotten and fallen, proud and arrogant. They may be a speck of dust "on the ass of an elephant" because, you will remember, God didn't pick the biggest, so it's all proportional but still human nonetheless. Human nature is fallen regardless how big they are.

191 posted on 01/16/2005 12:05:44 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: 1 spark; RnMomof7; kosta50
Jesus was a man. God is not a man.

Since you are not a Christian, what faith do you uphold?

192 posted on 01/16/2005 12:51:37 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
A couple of questions ET.

Do you per chance know where the single verse may be found which contains the phrase I was?

Also, can you please show where the word eimi, used first person present indicative, and in direct discourse is ever translated as a past tense?

Thank you.
193 posted on 01/16/2005 5:56:48 AM PST by snerkel ("Don't condone what God condemns")
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; kosta50
Torah is binding.

On the unregenerate (given to the Jews before Christ) .

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

Romans 13:1,4 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities...for he is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

1 Timothy 1:8-10 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine...

The law deals with sin. The law makes us aware of our condition and our need for Savior.

"because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."

194 posted on 01/16/2005 6:50:10 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: kosta50
Halacha is derived from the Thorah, and many a rabbi will tell you that these pronouncements are in agreement with it. You can take up your issues of expertise to the source, which I included.

Yes. A Rabbi's interpretation of "Halacha" is derived from the Torah. Brilliant.

195 posted on 01/16/2005 7:00:27 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: kosta50
I posted what is public knowledge. I also asked the readers to read rabbinic interpretations before jumping to any conclusions.

What you mean are "selected" rabbinic interpretations. Selected by you of course. They're all public knowledge. Because you discovered a portion of Mishnah doesn't mean they're trying to hide anything. You might wanna try letting a Jew actually define what a Jew is. Afterall, you get to define what an Orthodox is.

196 posted on 01/16/2005 7:05:21 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

It's time for your medication.


197 posted on 01/16/2005 7:39:49 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
What you mean are "selected" rabbinic interpretations

No, you poor thing, Wikipedia selected it for me as referenced under "Jews and Gentiles."

Bye, bye now.

198 posted on 01/16/2005 7:42:04 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: RnMomof7; DouglasKC
Dt 27:26 says "Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Which is why Paul says in Gal 3:10 "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

Why? Because as you hinted earlier, no human can fulfill the law perfectly. Without a Savior, everyone under the law is cursed.

199 posted on 01/16/2005 7:47:48 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: RnMomof7; DouglasKC; 1 spark
The previous post also contradicts the claim by some that all one has to do is try to fulfill the law. Obviously not!
200 posted on 01/16/2005 7:50:33 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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