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To: kosta50
RE:"Mom already explained why it is impossible to make oneself righteous by the law -- for to do so one has to obey it perfectly and no one, given our nature, can do it."

Same old blather that Constantinian Church teaches...which is NOT consistent with the OT and the message of Jesus. The OT and Jesus repeatedly tell us to be right with God, we must REPENT. Repentance, and following God's law makes us right with God. It's plain, simple, and easy to understand. No mystery.

RE: Judaism does not know proselytism.

Are you serious? Number one, Jews don't feel the need to proselytize because they believe the good of all nations are favored by God (perhaps a safe excuse (?) considering their history of persecution, suffering, and genocide) . Number 2...looking all the way back to the early Constantinian church, when do you suggest might have been an opportune ("safe") time for them to ATTEMPT to proselytize (had they believed it to be right) ...during the crusades perhaps...or maybe in the early 1940's? C'mon Kosta, you can't be serious.

I'm not sure what your motive is in listing the "Halachic pronouncements". This is unfamiliar territory to me...so difficult to comment on it. Interesting though, that you bring up some "pronouncements" that acted as "guidelines taught by people of influence", yet.... you, IMO, seem indifferent/defensive to the systematic persecution perpetrated on the Jews. In the grand scheme of things, those "words" are but a speck of dust on the ass of an elephant. You shall know them by their fruits.

Hate and intolerance is a human quality -- passions that lead to the death of the soul, which is why all humanity is in need of salvation.

Hate and intolerance is a human quality -- passions that lead to the death of the soul, which is why all humanity is in need of REPENTANCE.

187 posted on 01/15/2005 11:30:49 PM PST by 1 spark (see my links)
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To: 1 spark
Okay, so the so-called "Constatinian" Church teaches that one is made righteous by Grace and not by law. If you believe, you will follow God's laws out of love for God, not because you "have to." If you truly love God you will repent for doing that which is wrong. It all comes down to faith. Your salvation is from God, not from your works. God saves people by His mercy. Nothing you do or say, or pay or pray can earn you that Grace. It's a gift.

Judaism does not require faith in order for someone to be acceptable to God. Christianity does. Your pick.

Number one, Jews don't feel the need to proselytize because they believe the good of all nations are favored by God

The good of all nations? Which, Gentiles? The non-Adams? The "others?" If they wanted to preach goodness of God to other nations, they sure had plenty of opportunity in the last 6,000 years or so.

Motive? it's always that suspicious motive that comes up, when nothing else can be said. My motive was to show that everyone has extreme views and, given the opporutnity, will use them because human nature is such, rotten and fallen, proud and arrogant. They may be a speck of dust "on the ass of an elephant" because, you will remember, God didn't pick the biggest, so it's all proportional but still human nonetheless. Human nature is fallen regardless how big they are.

191 posted on 01/16/2005 12:05:44 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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