Archbishop of Canterbury admits: This makes me doubt the existence of God

Telegraph ^ | 04 January 2005 | Chris Hastings, Patrick Hennessy and Sean Rayment

[RnMomof7]

but rather to the whole of humanity, and to the Muslims in particular, that they may return back to their Lord and their Deen. Many of the Muslims today have gathered many sins, some of those sins are so great (kabaa'ir), that it has taken them outside the fold of Islam, while others are on the verge of the Kufr.

You make my point than you . They do not "blame " their god, because they do not EXPECT him to love them or care for them.

The point is that Christians can not understand coming it from a God "of love" , so they question.

[sassbox]

I can understand why the bishop might question God's existence in the wake of the tsunami - it's a natural reaction. but to tell his flock that they SHOULD question God's existence is just irresponsible and quite arrogant too.

[sionnsar]

Faith in plain language
Daily Telegraph UK

LONDON (1/3/2005)--Lambeth Palace has objected to a headline in the first edition of yesterday's Sunday Telegraph, which read: "Archbishop of Canterbury admits: This makes me doubt the existence of God". The headline, said a spokesman for Dr Rowan Williams, was a "misrepresentation of the archbishop's views" on the Asian tsunami disaster, as he had expressed them in the paper.

We have some sympathy with the archbishop. Those who had time on their hands to read his article several times over will realise that he was not in fact doubting the existence of God. The headline writer had clearly been misled by the sentence: "Every single random, accidental death is something that should upset a faith bound up with comfort and ready answers."

The archbishop's purpose here, it now appears, was to say that the Christian faith should not be upset by natural disasters, because it is a faith that is not "bound up with comfort and ready answers". But what a convoluted way of putting it.

If Dr Williams was indeed misrepresented by our sister paper's headline, he himself must accept much of the blame. His prose is so obscure, his thought processes so hard to follow, that his message is often unclear.

What, for example, is the lay reader to make of the following passage from his article? "They [believers] have learned to see the world and life in the world as a freely given gift; they have learned to be open to a calling or invitation from outside their own resources, a calling to accept God's mercy for themselves and make it real for others; they have learned that there is some reality to which they can only relate in amazement and silence.

These convictions are terribly assaulted by all those other facts of human experience that seem to point to a completely arbitrary world, but people still feel bound to them, not for comfort or ease, but because they have imposed themselves on the shape of a life and the habits of a heart."

If Dr Williams hopes to teach and inspire his flock, he really must learn to express himself more clearly. Otherwise he will be forever doomed to be the victim of his own erudition.

[Frumanchu]

Certainly for Christians there's truth in that Fru. But I think for the rest of the world it goes beyond that.

True, but often even we Christians fail to accept that we are chastened, sometimes even to the point of death. Like children we often to not see temporal judgement and chastening as being God's will for us, but rather events that were reluctantly allowed to happen and "hurt Him more than it hurt us." And that's just as it relates to tragedies which befall us believers.

What I see from Dr Rowan is what I see from a lot of other Christians I talk to...the struggle to comprehend how a "God of love" can allow such "horrible tragedies" to occur to "innocent people."

[Corin Stormhands]

I understand. ;-)

[Guillermo]

Often times, people forget, that while God is a God of Love, He is also as much a God of Justice and Righteousness.

[fishtank]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1301157/posts

[P-Marlowe]

This guy has an intellectual and theological resume' that is unmatched since the times of the Pharisees. This guy has obviously come to an intellectual understanding about God, but I doubt if he has ever come to a spiritual understanding.

When what God allows or brings to pass does not compute with his intellectual understanding of the way God ought to act, then he loses what he would consider is his "faith." But I suggest his faith is in his own intellectual understanding and not in God.

I doubt that any of us can truly understand what it was that prompted God to either cause this calamity or to allow it to come to pass, but we must all recognize that "all things work together for good." And whether it was directly caused by God's hand or whether God simply did not prevent it, we must understand that his Holy purpose will be served in it. Frankly I see it already in the outpouring of generosity and kindness that is being expressed by those who call Christ their Lord.

[RnMomof7]

Very true, but unlike the gods of the world he ordained a plan to save his people .

[fish hawk]

Advice from an old Indian carpenter: Keep both hands on the hammer and you will never smash your fingers. If you have to hold the nail, get a friend or your wife to hold the nail for you.

[kaehurowing]

The Daily Telegraph has identified one of Anglicanism's most serious weaknesses, its inability to communicate in English.

It is commonly referred to as "Episcobabble," the ability to render circuitous and pious sounding speeches without actually saying anything. It hides the fact that the vast majority of Anglican clergy are almost totally ignorant of the meaning of the Scriptures or of traditional orthodox Christianity. Why refer to something so old-fashioned when you can base your sermon on the sayings of Sufi Rumi instead.

As a lifelong (former) Episcopalian, I got fed up with Episcobabble a number of years ago. I now go to a church where they express the Gospel in clear English.

[Freakazoid]

If on Dec 26th, 150,000 people, spread evenly around the world, had died in their sleep, we wouldn't have heard about it.

People die everyday.
People die without Christ everyday.
Is that any less a tragedy than the tsunami deaths?

I read somewhere that 1.8 people die every second. That's 150,000 a day. Earthly life is short, folks.

So, 300,000 die that day instead of the usual 150,000 and people start questioning God?

This may sound crass but if doubling the death rate for a single day puts God on someone's radar screen, something good will come out of this. God uses all things for good, even that meant for evil.

[Freakazoid]

If Dr Williams was indeed misrepresented by our sister paper's headline, he himself must accept much of the blame. His prose is so obscure, his thought processes so hard to follow, that his message is often unclear.

I might have beat my wife, but it's her fault, she asked for it!

[Diamond]

What ultimately must be faced, and what Dr Rowan apparently has trouble accepting, is that God has the sovereign ability to deliver men from either...and yet sometimes chooses not to.

....

³¹ For men are not cast off

    by the Lord forever.

    ³² Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,

    so great is his unfailing love.

    ³³ For he does not willingly bring affliction

    or grief to the children of men.

   

    ³⁴ To crush underfoot

    all prisoners in the land,

    ³⁵ to deny a man his rights

    before the Most High,

    ³⁶ to deprive a man of justice-

    would not the Lord see such things?

   

    ³⁷ Who can speak and have it happen

    if the Lord has not decreed it?

    ³⁸ Is it not from the mouth of the Most High

    that both calamities and good things come?

    ³⁹ Why should any living man complain

    when punished for his sins?

   

    ⁴⁰ Let us examine our ways and test them,

    and let us return to the LORD .

    ⁴¹ Let us lift up our hearts and our hands

    to God in heaven, and say:

    ⁴² "We have sinned and rebelled

    and you have not forgiven.

   

    ⁴³ "You have covered yourself with anger and pursued us;

    you have slain without pity.

    ⁴⁴ You have covered yourself with a cloud

    so that no prayer can get through.

    ⁴⁵ You have made us scum and refuse

    among the nations.

   

    ⁴⁶ "All our enemies have opened their mouths

    wide against us.

    ⁴⁷ We have suffered terror and pitfalls,

    ruin and destruction."

    ⁴⁸ Streams of tears flow from my eyes

    because my people are destroyed.

   

    ⁴⁹ My eyes will flow unceasingly,

    without relief,

    ⁵⁰ until the LORD looks down

    from heaven and sees.

    ⁵¹ What I see brings grief to my soul

    because of all the women of my city.

   

    ⁵² Those who were my enemies without cause

    hunted me like a bird.

    ⁵³ They tried to end my life in a pit

    and threw stones at me;

    ⁵⁴ the waters closed over my head,

    and I thought I was about to be cut off.

   

    ⁵⁵ I called on your name, O LORD ,

    from the depths of the pit.

    ⁵⁶ You heard my plea: "Do not close your ears

    to my cry for relief."

    ⁵⁷ You came near when I called you,

    and you said, "Do not fear."

   

Lamentations 3

Cordially,

[Lexinom]

Hmmmm... Noah... The flood... Job's trial... The destruction of Sodom... The Babylonian captivity...

The fundamental error is the assumption that we are good, deserving of good. We so take for granted the goodness and forbearance of God that when He sends judgments upon us we see it as an injustice. A matter of bias, really...

May God use this terrible judgment for His glory and our profit. He knows more than we.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

...Do not fear.

Thank you, Diamond. That passage is beautiful and gives all who love Him comfort.

Human beings are much more of a threat to one another than natural disasters are. People deliberately kill other human beings in far greater numbers than this tidal wave did.

While the images of lost victims and decimated villages are horrific and heartbreaking, it's worth wondering where all the photos and news coverage and lamenting theologian/poseurs were 10 years ago when over 800,000 men, women and children were hacked to death in Rwanda in 90 days. Did anyone ask where God was then? I don't recall this Druid (or the Druid who preceded him) offering any solace to the world after this genocide.

I remember reading on some FR thread a few years ago that "people just didn't know what was happening to Jews in Europe during WW-2." Or else had people known the extent of the slaughter, certainly someone somewhere would have acted sooner.

I accepted that until one night when I was watching "Casablanca" for the 20th time and I heard lines I'd apparently missed before. A young Jewish couple from Bulgaria are desperate to leave Morocco and begs Rick for the Letters of Transit to allow them safe passage to avoid "death in the concentration camps."

Victor Laszlo (Paul Henreid) has recently escaped from "a German concentration camp."

And even Bogart makes reference to the reality in Europe: "Now you've got to listen to me. Do you have any idea what you'd have to look forward to if you stayed here? Nine chances out of ten we'd both wind up in a concentration camp."

"Casablanca" was written as a successful NY play in 1940, "Everybody Comes to Rick's." The movie was filmed in 1942 and released November, 1942. Anyone who saw the play or film knew the words "concentration camp" and just what went on there.

Human beings have a very selective memory, conditioned by eons of our baser instincts. For the fallen creature to deny God because His actions appear "heartless" is nonsensical. We out-kill God any time we want.

And apparently we want to all the time.

The only solace in the temporal world is Jesus Christ.

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -- John 16:33

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

lol, thanks for succinct and pointed analysis

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

lol, thanks for succinct and pointed analysis

[MrsEmmaPeel]

One could also take the tact that God did warn everyone that an enormous tsunami was coming-- except very few people were listening. The sudden drop in the fall of the water was a clue that the animals picked up on as did a 10 year old English school girl.

[F.J. Mitchell]

This guy is pathetic. Salvation doesn't promise us a bed of roses in this lifetime. It rains upon the just and the unjust equally. Bad things happen to good people-good things happen to bad people, only TV evangelist and false profits in general, preach that God will make you a millionaire if you pay your tithes and mail in a special donation to keep them on the air.

God is God, not Santa Claus. God answers our prayers, just as he has promised, but granting three wishes regardless of what they may be, is not God's way of answering prayer. He knows what is best for us and answers accordingly.

Any man of the Cloth who admits to doubting God because of this tsunami, is confessing to possing little faith before.

We all are aware that it is appointed unto man once to die, whether we die by ourselves or along with 150,000 other people-each dies only once.

The clean up horrifies those left living, but all the dead are resting peacefully.