Submission to authority / God. (Vanity)

Rodney King ^ | today | Rodney King

[Rodney King]

OK. I am 31 years old. I became a Christian at 26. I received absolutley no religious instruction from my parents as a kid. Once I was an adult, I sought Christ, but was misled as I went to the prominent Christian church in town. It was an Episcopalian Church where all the prominent citizens went. Anyway, being a critical thinker, it was obvious that God wasn't being taught there. I did not really know what God was, but it was obivous that nobody else there did either, so I thought the whole thing was a scam.

I came to Christ as a result of meeting a guy in a bar. After a softball game, my team went to a bar where I met a fellow from Texas who was new to the area. He wanted to play ball, and we needed another guy. He was a good Christian. He related how when he and his wife moved to my town (in CT) his wife called all the churches and basically had a quiz about their beliefs that she wanted them to answer. It was pretty basic stuff (is there more than one path to heaven, etc.). Anyway, only one minister passed the test.

He had been an episcopalian priest in the Boston area who was driven out because he would not say that homosexuality was ok. He had a patron in my town who set him up in a small church. There were 50-100 regular members. They have since become members of the Presbyterian Church of America. (not the liberal PC-USA).

My new friend set me up with this pastor, and we had a few meetings in his office and over lunch.

He correctly diagnosed my problem:

I am resistant to authority, and had trouble submitting to Christ's will.

With this recognition of my major problem, I came around and submitted to the will of God. I have been blessed by the Lord endlessly since.

Having not been widely exposed to many forms of Christianity, I have always had an open mind about other denominations.

As a kid in CT, most of my friends were Catholic. I always thought it was a fraud because they did sunday school and confirmation, but clearly didn't beleive in God anymore than the phony wasps at the Epsicopalian church.

A little bit later, I made two good friends who were very much Catholic (one is a Freeper). The equivalent of an "Evangelical Catholic" if there is such a thing.

All along, I have of course had problems with the Catholic sex scandals, as well as the liberal cardinals, etc.

I have since moved to Oklahoma. In the last few months, I have been watching EWTN frequently. I am drawn by two clear things:

1. The beauty and majesty of the masses, that appear to me to be such pure expressions of faith, and

2. The level of strict beleif on the newtork, from the unyielding belief in the teachings, to the activism as represented from Father Frank Pavones' show, and the willingness of the Priests in the daily mass to address issues such as abortion and euthanasia.

So, where does that leave me?

I have questions about the faith, and questions about authority.

First, about the faith:

Does Catholicism teach that priests are middlemen? I.E. do I really need a Priest to make me right and forgive my sins? Must I confess to a priest, and not just directly to God?

Does the beauty of the mass, and the worhsip of Mary and the Saint amount to idolatry?

Most importantly is the submission to authority. Submitting to authority is the biggest problem in my life. It was a problem with my parents, it has been a problem with my jobs (witness my day time freeping), and it was a problem with Christ. I have overcome it with Christ (although still struggle with it) and have made good progess with parents, bosses, etc.

Does a Catholic submit to an authority other than God? While I admire and trust the men I watch on EWTN, it only takes a few minutes of FReeping to be reminded of limp-wristed catholics. Or, to be more generous, by accepting the authority of the church, am I accepting the authority of the MEN who run the church?

In protestantism, one can walk away from a pastor with unsound teachings. However, how does one do this in Catholicism? What does one think when a Vatican offical utters something stupid (like criticizing Israel for not giving aid, when in reality Israel offered the aid and Sri Lanka rejected it)? Or, when local bishops have been complicit in covering up sex scandals and transferring priests to inflict their harm elsewhere?

I would be very grateful for any advice. My wife is on my case about my watching EWTN all the time, and of course this is very meanginful to me personally.

PS:

Who runs EWTN? It seems to be such a better expression of the faith than that presented by big city parishes.

Thanks again.

[Rodney King]

And get a copy of Oswald Chambers' book of daily devotion, My Utmost for His Highest. It is the best...next to the Bible, of course.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[Rodney King]

Thanks for your suggested reading, I appreciate it.

[Gingersnap]

Well, the usual can o' worms got opened, I see!

First, congratulations on embracing this journey. It's difficult for non-Christians and untaught Christians to put in the work to understand the kinds of concepts you're exploring. Truthfully, it's pretty daunting.

As you can see, there is no unanimity on some of your concerns. Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox put a great deal of emphasis on apostolic continuity and church "teaching" (which goes by different names). This doesn't diminish the authority of the bible.

Protestants have a range of responses ranging from direct revelation (some charismatic and some Pentecostal groups) to a combination of the biblical authority, church teaching, and reason (Continuing Anglicans, for one).

One thing we all agree on (although in different ways LOL) is the guidance of the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. It is this aspect of God that prompts us toward Him so listen for it.

If you like traditional Catholic liturgy but have concerns with structure of the Church, learn more about continuing Anglican groups in your area. They range from the ultra High Church type (similar to a pre-Vatican II mass in English) to the spirit-filled charismatic type (except with more communion).

If you are attracted to the doctrine you saw in the Orthodox Presbyterians, you may need to let go of your liturgical inclinations. Remember, it's not all smells and bells - you need to believe, to have faith. It may be that you have faith in reformed theology (although we Anglicans are pretty reformed - we are!). If that's where your heart is, that's where you need to be.

Just pray and read a lot. See things for yourself with the help of the Holy Ghost before you take someone's word for it. Take your time.

I'd say,"Good Luck" but luck has nothing to do with it!

[Rodney King]

This booklet introduces them to you.

Infinite thanks. I have not read this yet, but will tonight.

[broadsword]

There is no right or wrong way to pray.

How about this:

"Hey God! I want you to snap to it and start doing what I want from now on. I am tired of you telling me what to do! I am not about to follow all that Jesus crap! Now give me success in this world and let me have all the babes I can get my hands on! and you can take all that religion and guilt crap and shove it!"

Are you sure "there is no right or wrong way to pray"?

[Rodney King]

Great thoughts, many thanks.

[broadsword]

I know it's very long, my friend. First time I encountered it, I copied it into a word processor and then printed it for more attentive reading. It's very good.

Good luck and God's blessing in your journey of faith.

[bray]

Being a Born Again Christian like you, I believe in a personal relationship with the Living God. Find a Church that preaches a personal relationship and stays in the Bible. The Holy Spirit will guide you. I went to Catholic Church for 8 years and found it impersonal with Jesus.

Your Relationship with God will always be changing, but enjoy the walk and keep searching.

Pray for W and Our Troops

[Rodney King]

I recommend Fr. John Corapi. You've probably seen him on EWTN

Yes, I like him. Thanks for the link to his website.

[broadsword]

Thanks for the advice, FRiend, but (perhaps I'm slow) you will have to make it more clear for me.

Peace

[Rodney King]

When you need to pray? How is this decided? You should pray when you want to, or YOU feel the need to. Stop judging yourself. There is no right or wrong way to pray. When you NEED to pray, you will do so with ease, trust me. Just read your Bible and relax. Learn the word and try to live by Jesus' example. I fail at this everyday, but I still try. Remember that we each have a PERSONAL relationship with God, and it is and will be what you make of it. Don't let anyone tell you how to come to the Lord.

Thanks. Recently (in the last month) I had a choice between leaving my job and taking a good oppotunity, and taking a good opportunity with my current company that would have required my moving for two years. It probably took me 3 or 4 days of before I truly sat down, read the bible, and asked God for his guidance. That is my problem with authority. I feel like I can do it all on my own.

[marmar]

What exatcly is the fruit of the Spirit. Love is the one of the best ways to draw people to Christ. The way you are headed you will kill both friends and enemies..

[Rodney King]

I'd say,"Good Luck" but luck has nothing to do with it!

Many thanks.

[weenie]

Again, good luck (your journey will not only be rewarding...it will be fun and infinitely joyful)...

Click here to go "My Upmost for His Highest" on Amazon

Read the reviews and decide for yourself...

Thx for your post...it's a great way to start the new year for all of us to hear of another dear soul saved...Wow.

[Rodney King]

Your Relationship with God will always be changing, but enjoy the walk and keep searching.

Thank you.

[Quix]

U R quite welcome.

Thanks much for saying so.

Prayers for your growth in The Lord.

[AlbionGirl]

Perhaps I have no right to offer advise, as I was a lapsed Catholic for many years, and you should know that before considering anything I have to say.

Your instinct about the Mass is right, and true and guided by Grace. Don't let that slip away. Go to Mass, if you can.

And it looks like you have a lot of good reading recommendations, so the only thing I'm going to suggest is getting a hold of a CD by Rosalind Moss. This CD which was part of a Lenten Conference might be available through EWTN. I have it, and would be willing to mail it to you at a P.O. box or whatever, if you'd like it and can't find it.

The title of the CD is "From Judaism to the Fullness of Christ." Another book, and I'm sorry, I don't remember the author's name, "Salvation is from the Jews" will also give you an immeasureable amount of knowledge and will nourish and succor your fledgling Faith.

[My2Cents]

Well, Rodney, as you can tell from some of the posts in this thread, when people place a premium upon the traditions of men and/or the peculiar teachings of their denomination, it begins to muddy the water.

As Paul said in Colossians,

"Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God...Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. (Col 2:18-19, 3:1-4)

Jesus is all you need. Don't let anyone place their teachings, or any intermediary, between you and Christ.

[broadsword]

Thank you again, sister.

[Pukin Dog]

It probably took me 3 or 4 days of before I truly sat down, read the bible, and asked God for his guidance.

All I would question is why you feel the need to measure the time it takes? I fear that you have some set template in your mind for how all this is supposed to occur in your life. It is a form of control. Are you a control freak? If so, what is it that you are afraid of?