The Mother of the Son: The Case for Marian Devotion

CatholicEducatorsResourceCenter.org ^ | 2004 | Mark Shea

[Salvation]

Very good arguments there.......the first one was the first reading from this last Sunday.

[ScottM1968]

Protestants do not call it this "Holy Tradition", but believe that we are to spread the news and Word of Christ to all.

It is the same as I understand it. And it is mandated of us all by Christ Himself to go preach to the world such things.

[Salvation]

~ PRAYER ~

St. Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle
 Be our protection against the wickedness
and snares of the devil;
May God rebuke him, we  humbly pray,
 and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
 by the power of God,
 Thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits
who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
 Amen
+

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm aware of the Catholic belief in tradition, but I'm also aware that the doctrine of sola scriptura has an adequate foundation in Scripture.

[Salvation]

Oops.
But that still does not diminish the fact of Mary's continued appearances asking the world to pray for peace.

[Salvation]

**As Catholics we view these worlds as God does, therfore are in communion with those who have died. Which is why we not only pray for them, we ask them to pray for us. Logically speaking, asking those who exist elsewhere in God's kingdom to pray for us makes at least as much sense as asking a total stranger on an internet board.**

Amen -- although I pray for the people on the internet board too!

Have a blessed Christmas!

[Salvation]

One hundred references on the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[AlbionGirl]

Thanks for the ping, S. Most of the issues people have with Mary are really issues about something else. "Where is the Assumption of Mary in the Bible?" isn't really a question about Mary. It's a question about the validity of Sacred Tradition and the authority of the Church.

Truth, no. 1.

"Why should I pray to Mary?" isn't really about Mary, either. It's actually a question about the relationship of the living and the dead in Christ. "Do Catholics worship Mary?" isn't a question about Mary. It's concerned more with whether or not Catholics countenance idolatry and what the word "honor" means. And curiously enough, all these and many more objections both pay homage to and completely overlook the central truth about Mary that the Catholic Church labors to help us see: that her life, in its entirety, is a referred life.

Truth no. 2.

Sublime Neglect

As an Evangelical, that question sounded reasonable — right up until another question began to bother me: If Catholics honor Mary too much, exactly how do we Evangelicals honor her "just enough"? For the reality was that my native Evangelicalism recoiled from any and all mention of Mary.

Truth no. 3, and I could go on, and on and on.

Recoil is the right word, and that's why I know there's more to their perturbation with our Devotion to Mary than merely our Devotion to Mary.

Also, I notice at work that an Evangelical co-worker seems to get a little angst, when I make the Sign of the Cross before I eat my lunch.

I had a crisis of Faith back a while ago, and during that crisis I attended an Assembly of God service with that same co-worker. The Service was full of music, a decent sermon, but it sent me running back to my beloved Catholic Church. I praise God that he gave me the good fortune of being born to parents who gave me this great, divine gift.

The fullness of the truth of God as revealed by the Catholic Church has no equal.

Reading this piece, my heart was once more filled with appreciation and joy that I am a Roman Catholic. This piece also was excellent because he understands the psychology behind the Evangelical angst with certain aspects of Catholic Dogma. He's got an inside scoop.

Now, to go totally off course, but not really, if you ever get a chance, get Rosalind Moss' "From Judaism to the Fullness of Christ." It'll make you cry, smile, and leap for joy that the Liturgy of Christ and his Blessed Apostles was preserved for us by the equally as Blessed Roman Catholic Church.

She was an Evangelical for many years, and she said when she stepped into her first Roman Catholic Church she felt at home because she said it was so much like a Synagogue. She looked at the Blessed Sacrament in The Tabernacle, and thought "Holy of Holies." Anyway, it's an incredible story.

There's also a young Jewish man who wrote "Salvation is from the Jews", and his conversion story is centrally about our Blessed Lady. She brought him to her Son, and it was the last place he said he wanted to go.

Anyway, this gentleman's love for Our Blessed Lady is enormous and worth checking out.

[ScottM1968]

Of course there will be dead and risen saints in Heaven. But they are unable to intercede on our behalf and cannot hear our prayers.

[Coleus]

bttt

[NYer]

I'm aware of the Catholic belief in tradition, but I'm also aware that the doctrine of sola scriptura has an adequate foundation in Scripture.

Catholics agree with Protestants that Scripture is a "standard of truth"—even the preeminent one—but not in a sense that rules out the binding authority of authentic apostolic Tradition and the Church. The Bible doesn’t teach that. Catholics agree that Scripture is materially sufficient. In other words, on this view, every true doctrine can be found in the Bible, if only implicitly and indirectly by deduction. But no biblical passage teaches that Scripture is the formal authority or rule of faith in isolation from the Church and Tradition. Sola scriptura can’t even be deduced from implicit passages.

Can you show me where the Bible teaches 'sola scriptura'?

[NYer]

The word saints in Revelation 5:8 is the same word used in many other sciptures referring to ordinary believers as saints. Again, this verse does nothing to justify praying to the deceased.

God answers in particular the prayers of the righteous. James declares: "The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. Elijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit" (Jas. 5:16–18). Yet those Christians in heaven are more righteous, since they have been made perfect to stand in God’s presence (Heb. 12:22-23), than anyone on earth, meaning their prayers would be even more efficacious.

The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

[ScottM1968]

There is no Scripture to suggest this to be true.

To legitimize the guess that it must happen in the absence of valid Scripture allows us to throw in a bunch of other bizarre things unless told otherwise.

For instance, could we not also assume that people in Hell get to take a vacation in Heaven every once and a while? Why not, especially if we can pray to God to offer them a reprieve from Heaven's walls?

[ScottM1968]

How can you possibly know otherwise?

Do you practice other examples of un-Scripturally thought in the hope that it must be true with God simply because you practice it? I should hope not!

[Mr. Lucky]

Sure.

II Timothy 3:15-16

And that from a child thou hast known thy holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Collossians 2:8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Matthew 15:6

And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Revelations 22:18-19

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.