THE MATHEMATICAL SIGNATURE OF GOD IN THE WORDS OF SCRIPTURE [INCREDIBLE PROOF]

BOOK THE SIGNATURE OF GOD: Documented Evidence That Proves Beyond Doubt the Bible Is the Inspired... ^ | 1998 | GRANT R JEFFERY

[Quix]

NOTE: If I know anything about the rabid naysayers on FR, at least some of the RELIGIOUS [vs spiritual] types will wail and rant that ANYTHING having to do with numbers and The Bible has to be crossing the line into dealing with Biblically forbidden NUMEROLOGY. This is nonsense. The dictionary definition of “numerology” makes clear that numerology is the study of numbers, as the figures designating the year of one’s birth, “to determine their supposed influence on one’s life, future, etc.” [Quix color, bold emphasis on the definition from:

HERE: http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0562554.html

Clearly, the Biblically prohibited issue is INTEREST IN, TRUST IN, FASCINATION IN, FAITH IN A SUPERNATURAL OCCULTIC CONNECTION, PHENOMENA OR DYNAMIC rather than Faith in God.

Please note also, I didn’t go back and insert the italics codes for the rather many italicized words. Sorry. Have other priorities today, too. As usual, the color bolded is my emphasis.

CHAPTER 12 excerpt for fair use discussion from

The Signature of God

By Grant R Jeffery

The Book has many chapters of impressive study and research including photos from Sinai Peninsula re Moses’ led crossing at the EXODUS etc. I encourage people to buy and read the whole book. It’s well worth the time. NOTE: Jeffrey uses Hebrew Letters in the text. I’ve forgotten my Hebrew alphabet and certainly don’t know how to post them. If someone can clue me in (listing the Hebrew alphabet with the letter’s names in English letters—as well as how to post the Hebrew), I’ll see what I can do, later.

The Mathematical Signature of God in the Words of Scripture

The Scriptures reveal God as the great mathematician who knows the smallest detail of His creation, and measures and numbers all things. This character of God is consistent with the revealed phenomenon of staggering complexity involving mathematical patterns within the text of the Scriptures. The Bible declares that God is so concerned with the details of His children's lives that He has numbered the hairs on our head. "But the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30). The prophet Isaiah speaks of His majesty and His concern for numbering and measuring all things [paragraphing added by Quix]:

"Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand, measured heaven with a span and calculated the dust of the earth in a measure? Weighed the mountains in scales and the hills in a balance?" (Isaiah 40:12, NKjv). When you consider the Bible's declaration that God "measured the waters," "measured heaven with a span," and "calculated the dust of the earth in a measure," it does not seem unusual or out of character that this same Almighty God would inspire His writers to record His precise message to mankind in the Scriptures with a mathematical precision within the original text that surpasses our ability to understand fully.

Evidence of Divine Authorship of the Old Testament

Ivan Panin was one of the most remarkable Christians to live in this century. Almost one hundred years ago, this fascinating and famous mathematician left Russia to settle eventually in Canada in the town of Aldershot, Ontario, not far from where I live. Although he was a committed atheist in his early years, he discovered the reality of Jesus Christ later. In 1890, Panin embarked on an exciting journey of scientific exploration of the text of the Bible that would prove that the Bible is truly the inspired Word of God. This century has witnessed a progressive abandonment of the doctrine of verbal inspiration of the Scriptures by many biblical scholars and religious leaders. As the leaders of many mainline churches succumbed to the continuous assaults on fundamental doctrines and the authority of Scripture, many Christian laymen began to lose their confidence that they could absolutely trust that the Bible was truly the inspired Word of God. As Ivan Panin wrote, "In the early centuries Christianity suffered most from its avowed enemies; in the last, from its professed friends."

Panin completed an astonishing study during the ^•'course of fifty years that revealed the most amazing mathematical pattern beneath the surface layer of the text of the Bible. He worked diligently up to eighteen hours a day for half a century to illustrate the divine inspiration and authority of Scripture. As one small example, Panin discovered that the first verse of the Book of Genesis contains an astonishing number of mathematical patterns that illustrate divine inspiration. “ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1).

The phenomenon of these mathematical patterns cannot be understood until we realize that the Bible was composed in alpha-numeric languages—Hebrew and Greek. These ancient languages did not possess Arabic numbers to express numeric data. Therefore, these languages used various letters of their alphabet to express numbers such as " 1,2,3," etc. In addition, a small portion of the Bible was written in Aramaic, which is also alpha-numeric. Each letter in these languages stood for a number. -In other words, each of the letters expressed both a letter and a number. When they wished to express a number, such as 22, they would choose two Hebrew letters—one letter [HEBREW LTR] stood for 20 and the second letter [HEBREW LTR] stood for 2.

The first letter of the Hebrew alphabet stood for 1, the second for 2, the third for 3, etc. When we come to the eleventh letter, it represented 20, the twelfth stood for 30, etc., all the way through to 800. Because each letter had a numeric value, every word can be given a numeric value by adding up the total value of each of the individual letters. In addition, every one of the Hebrew and Greek letters was given a place value as well. To help illustrate this phenomenon let's apply this system to the English language. It would look like this:

An Example Illustrated in the English Language

PLACE VALUE

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60

NUMERIC VALUE

The Hebrew Language

PLACE VALUE

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

[FIRST 15 HEBREW LETTERS]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60

NUMERIC VALUE

Note that in the above example using the English alphabet the first ten letters have the same place values and numeric values. However, when we get to the eleventh letter K, the numeric value begins to increase by ten with each additional letter until we reach the value of 100. From that point in the alphabet forward the numeric value of each letter will increase by 100.

Every single word in Hebrew contains a series of letters with individual numeric values. For example, the word B'raisheet, "beginning," is expressed in Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew as [HEBREW LETTERS]. If you add up the total value of the individual letters in B'raisheet the numeric value of the word is 913. Since each word has a numeric value, we can add up the value of each of the words in a biblical verse to determine the numerical value of the sentence.

The Astonishing Pattern of SEVENS in Genesis 1:1

Let us begin by examining the first verse of the Bible to explore Panin's discovery.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1)

[Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew]

Ivan Panin carefully examined the Hebrew text of Genesis 1:1 and discovered an incredible phenomenon of multiples of 7 that could not be explained by chance. Genesis 1:1 was composed of 7 Hebrew words containing a 28 letters. Throughout the Bible, the number 7 appears repeatedly as a symbol of divine perfection—the 7 days of creation. God rested on the 7th day, the 7 churches, the 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, etc. In total, Panin discovered 30 separate codes involving the number 7 in this first verse of the Bible.

A Listing of the Phenomenal Features of Sevens Found in Genesis 1:

1. The number of Hebrew words.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
2. The number of letters equals 28 (28-4= 7) . . . . . Seven
3. The first three Hebrew words translated
“In the beginning God created” contain
14 letters (14 / 2 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
4. The last four Hebrew words "the heavens
and the earth" have 14 letters (14-2=7) . . . . . . . .Seven
5. The fourth and fifth words have 7 letters . . . . . Seven
6. The sixth and seventh words have 7 letters . . . . .Seven
7. The three key words: God, heaven, and earth have 14 letters (14 / 2 = 7). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
8. The number of letters in the four remaining s
words is also 14 (14 / 2 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
9. The middle word is the shortest with 2 letters.
However, in combination with the word to the
Right or left it totals 7 letters . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
10. The numeric value of the first, middle,
(and last letters is 133 (133 / 19 = 7) . . . . . . . .. . . Seven
11. The numeric value of the first and last letters
of all seven words is 1,393 (1,393 - 199 = 7) Seven
When professors on the mathematics faculty at Harvard University were presented with this biblical phenomenon, they naturally attempted to disprove its significance as a proof of divine authorship. However, after valiant efforts these professors were unable to duplicate this incredible mathematical phenomenon. [QX PARAGRAPHING ADDED HERE]

The Harvard scientists used the English language and artificially assigned numeric values to the English alphabet. They had a potential vocabulary of over 400,000 available English words to choose from to construct a sentence about any topic they chose. [QX paragraphing added here]

Compare this to the limitations of word choices in the biblical Hebrew language, which has only forty-five hundred available word choices that the writers of the Old Testament could use. Despite their advanced mathematical abilities and access to computers the mathematicians were unable to come close to incorporating 30 mathematical multiples of 7 as found in the Hebrew words of Genesis 1:1.

If anyone doubts the difficulty of producing a passage following such an intricate pattern of sevens, I challenge you to try it yourself. I have tried, and it is impossible to complete a paragraph on any topic and remain true to the system of interlocking sevens. I doubt that anyone could complete a paragraph of over one hundred and fifty words following such a pattern of sevens, as found in Genesis 1:1 and Matthew, chapter 1, even if they were to devote several years to the effort. [QX added paragraphing, here].

The problem is that with the addition of every I fit single word and sentence the magnitude of the challenge to integrate the new phrase into the existing pattern grows geometrically. Each word and sentence must fit into the pattern existing within me preceding sentences. [Qx added paragraphing here].

In light of this virtual impossibility we need to remember that the writers of the Bible were forty-four mostly common men who wrote their individual texts separated from one another over a period of sixteen centuries. How could these ordinary men contribute to this hidden pattern without consultation when most of them never met their fellow authors? The only logical explanation is that God directed their minds through supernatural INSPIRATION TO WRITE His precise inspired words.

The number "seven" permeates the totality of Scripture because the number speaks of God's divine perfection and perfect order. The actual number 7 appears 287 times in the Old Testament (287 - 41 = 7) while the word seventh occurs 98 times (98 - 14 = 7). The word seven-fold appearst seven times. In addition, the word seventy is used 56 times • (56 / 8 = 7).

Panin discovered literally thousands of such mathematical patterns underlying all of the books of the Old Testament before his death in 1942. I refer the interested reader to Panin's book. The Inspiration of the Scriptures Scientifically Demonstrated,

which discusses these phenomena extensively. Panin and others have examined other Hebrew literature and have attempted to find such mathematical patterns, but they are not found anywhere outside the Bible.

Matthew 1:1-17—Evidence of Divine Authorship of the New Testament

Panin also examined the New Testament to discover whether or not the pattern continued. There were four hundred years of silence between the completion of the Old Testament ft around 396 B.C., and the writing of the New Testament following the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, when God inspired the New Testament authors, including Matthew, to begin writing the Gospels, He again manifested His signature on the pages of Scripture by creating a marvelously complex pattern of sevens beneath the text of Matthew's Gospel.

The first section in Matthew's account consists of seventeen verses from Matthew 1:1 to 1:17 that describe in•detail one particular subject, the genealogy of Jesus Christ. This seventeen-verse text contains 72 Greek Vocabulary words. A Vocabulary word is a particular word different from any other word that was used in a passage. In other words, a Greek word that appears 6 times in the passage would only be counted as 1 Vocabulary word. Obviously, the number of Vocabulary words will differ from the number of total words appearing in the passage. The same system of numeric and place values for letters exists in the Greek language used in the New Testament as we found in Hebrew of the Old Testament.

A Listing of the Phenomenal Features of Sevens Found in Matthew 1:1-17

1 The total numeric value of the 72 Vocabulary
words is 43,364 (42,364 - 6,052 = 7) . . . . . . . Seven
2 The number of Greek nouns in the passage
IS 56 (56 / 8 = 7)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
3 The Greek article for “the” occurs 56 times
(56 / 8 = 7)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven

In the first eleven verses of Matthew 1:1-11 we find these additional features:

4 The number of Greek vocabulary words is 49
(49 / 7 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
5 Of these 49 words, 28 words begin with a vowel
(28 / 4 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
6 Of these 49 words, 21 begin with a consonant
(21 / 3 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
7 The number of letters in these 49 words equals
266 (266 / 38 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
8 Of these 49 words, 35 words occur more than
one time (35 / 5 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
9 Of these 49 words, 14 words occur only one time
(14 / 2 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
10 The number of proper nouns is 35 (35/5=7) . . . . Seven
11 The number of times these proper nouns occur
is 63 (63 / 9 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
12 Of the 35 proper nouns, the number of
male names is 28 (28 / 4 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
13. Three women, Tamar, Rahab, and Ruth, are named
in this section. The number of Greek letters in
these three names is 7 (14 / 2 = 7) . . . . . . . . . Seven
Only a few of the numerical features that are found in this passage are listed in this analysis by Ivan Panin.

However, these features reveal an underlying profound mathematical design that reveals the signature of the true author of both the New Testament and the Old Testament— God Himself. However, to illustrate that this is not an unusual phenomenon occurring only in this one isolated passage, I will list some additional mathematical features that occur in the balance of Matthew 1:18-25 and describe the birth of Jesus Christ. In this seven-verse section God has placed an astonishing pattern of SEVENS that verify the signature of the original author.

The Pattern of SEVENS in Matthew 1:18-25—The History of Christ's Birth

1. The number of letters in the seven word
passage is 161 (161 -23=7) . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
2. The number of Vocabulary words is 77
. . . . (77-11=7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
3. Six Greek words occur only in this passage
. . . . . and never again in Matthew. These six
. . . . . .Greek words contain precisely 56 letters
. . . . . (56 - 8 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
4. The number of distinct proper nouns in
. . . . . the passage is 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
5. The number of Greek letters in these seven
. . . . . .proper nouns is 42 (42 - 6 = 7) . . . . . . . . Seven
6. The number of words spoken by the angel to
. . . . . . Joseph is 28 (28 - 4 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
7. The number of Greek forms of words used in
. . . . . . this passage is 161 (161 - 23 = 7) . . . . . . . Seven
8. The number of Greek forms of words in the
. . . . . angel’s speech is 35 (35 / 5 = 7) . . . . . . . . . Seven
9. The number of letters in the angel's 35 forms
. . . . . of words is 168 (168 / 24 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . Seven

This phenomenal discovery by Panin has been examined by numerous authorities and the figures have been verified. In total, Panin accumulated over forty thousand pages of detailed calculations covering most of the text of the Bible before his death. [Qx added paragraphing here]

These incredible, mathematical patterns are not limited to the number seven. There are numerous other patterns. These amazing patterns appear in the vocabulary, grammatical forms, parts of speech, and particular forms of words. They occur throughout the whole text of the Bible containing 31,173 verses. When you consider the amazing details of this mathematical phenomenon you realize that the change of a single letter or word in the original languages of Hebrew or Greek would destroy the pattern. Now we can understand why Jesus Christ declared that the smallest letter and grammatical mark of the Scriptures were preserved by God's hand: "For verily I say unto you. Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled” Matthew 5:18)

Naturally, the religious skeptics did not abandon their atheism in response to these incredible discoveries by Ivan Panin that revealed a staggering pattern of complexity hidden beneath the text of Scripture. After many skeptics had dismissed his research, Ivan Panin issued a public challenge through one of the major newspapers of the day, the New York Sun, in a letter to the editor on November 20, 1899, offering his detractors an opportunity to prove his research wrong if they could. [Qx added paragraphing here].

Panin issued his public challenge to some of the greatest atheist scholars of the day. "I herewith respectfully invite any or all of the following to prove that my facts are not facts: namely Messrs. Lyman Abbott, Washington Gladden, Herber Newton, Minot J. Savage, Presidents Eliot of Harvard, White of Cornell, and Harper of the University of Chicago, Professor J. Henry Thayer of Harvard, and Dr. Briggs, and any other prominent higher critic so called. They may associate with themselves, if they choose, all the contributors to the ninth edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, who wrote its articles on Biblical subjects, together with a dozen mathematicians of the caliber of Professor Simon Newcomb. [Qx added paragraphing here]

The heavier the calibre of either scholar or mathematician, the more satisfactory to ft me. They will find that my facts are facts. And since they are facts, I am ready to take them to any three prominent lawyers, or, better still, to any judge of the superior or supreme court, and abide by his decision as to whether the conclusion is not necessary that Inspiration alone can account for the facts, if they are facts. All I should ask would be that the judge treat the case as he would any other case that comes before him."

Despite his public challenge in the New York Sun, not one of these prominent men attempted to refute Mr. Panin's undeniable facts or to deal with the unavoidable conclusion that the evidence produced by Panin proved that the Bible was truly inspired by a divine intelligence. The critics could not refute these facts. The only thing they could do was to ignore them. [Qx added paragraphing here]

Were Mr. Panin's research and calculations wrong? If so, where? If they were correct, and if they are, then the evidence exists for all to see that God did truly inspire the words of Scripture. One of Panin's last challenges consisted of this argument. He wrote to his ''detractors: "Lastly, my argument can also be refuted by showing that even though my facts be true, my arithmetic faultless, and my collocation of numerics honest, that men could have written thus without inspiration from above."

However, any honest attempt to create a paragraph on any subject that will contain this astonishing pattern of mathematical features within the surface text will utterly fail. I doubt that even a modern Cray super-computer could produce a passage containing the "wheels within wheels" pattern of sevens as revealed in Genesis 1:1 or Matthew 1:1-25.

To date, no one has succeeded in duplicating the phenomenon produced by the biblical writers in ancient times.

What was Panin’s own view of the Scriptures after a lifetime of diligent study? He wrote the following statement in one of his essays after warning of the limitations of wisdom found in secular philosophy. "Not so, however, with The Book. For it tells of One who spake as men never spake, who was the true bread of life, that which cometh down from the heavens, of which if a man eat he shall never hunger." Ivan Panin's conclusion of the matter was the following challlenge.

"My friend of the world, whoso you are: Either Jesus Christ is mistaken or you are. The answer that neither might be is only evading the issue, not settling it. But the ages have decided that Jesus Christ was not mistaken. It is for you to decide whether you shall continue to be."

QX: AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

PTL!

[Quix]

Thanks.

The Kabbalist-mysticism . . . concerns me in an adverse way. Too close or over the lineof things Scripture exhorts against, for my comfort.

I've found that God loves to hide things and for us to find them. But He's not interested in us having to find anything of HIS via routes HE PROscribed.

But there's a wealth of treasures hidden which 'merely' require thoughtful looking without ANY occultic forces involved at all.

imho.

[Gamecock]

I've found that God loves to hide things and for us to find them.

Does this provide a visual representation of your view on Theology?

[topcat54]

I've found that God loves to hide things and for us to find them.

Is that God you're speaking of, or a cosmic easter bunny?

"Let us make God in our image ..."

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your reply!

The Kabbalist-mysticism . . . concerns me in an adverse way. Too close or over the lineof things Scripture exhorts against, for my comfort.

Indeed, the "new-agers" have hijacked much of the Jewish mysticism (Madonna and Britney Spears come to mind) - and thus it becomes very difficult to differentiate between the two in trying to research the roots of Jewish thinking.

The ELS (or Torah Codes or Bible Codes) is a case in point since it is obviously rooted in Kabbalism from the 1500's.

However, I do not know whether Rabbi Chaim Michael Dov Weissmandl - whose work led directly to the ELS project - was Kabbalist. Hasidic Judaism - a very orthodox group - also has Kabbalist roots. He could have been Hasidic.

[GreenAccord]

I want to read this later

[Quix]

THANKS

for the added info.

Thankfully, regardless of the initial work by the first Rabi,

it's a fascinating treasure trove of discovery, imho.

BLESSINGS,

[Quix]

Thanks.

There are some profitable lines to read.

One has to ignore the naysayers in several places. But that's doable.

[Alamo-Girl]

You're quite welcome! Blessings to you, too!

[Frumanchu]

I think you forgot to ping somebody else to that one ;)

[D Edmund Joaquin]

What everyone is looking for here is revealed plainly in the Scriptures. The problem is, in most cases it takes long periods of serious study and the teaching of the Holy Spirit, given in whatever measure you are spiritually mature enough to understand.

Take the case of the Vilna Gaon, for example. This man was largely unknown in the world as he lived here on earth. From childhood, he studied the Word of God and tried to live as an Orthodox believer. To most who saw him, he was just a little old Jewish man, living in a poor village, of no importance. Yet God imparted to him, for his faithfulness, the mysteries of the universe. He was content to abide in obscurity and let God teach him. He didn't grasp at being equal to God. He studied and he prayed and he tried to live a holy life. That's what you need to do, if you ever want to succeed spiritually.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

The rule is that all that was, is, and will be until the end of time is included in the Torah from "Bereishit" (the first verse of Genesis) to "L'eynei kol Yisrael" (the last verse of Deuteronomy). And not merely in a general sense, but including the details of every species and of each person individually, and the most minute details of everything that happened to him from the day of his birth until his death.

Well you see, this is the Word of John 1, verse 1. It's not exactly the same concept as the Christian Logos.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your ever engaging replies, D Edmund Joaquin!

Well you see, this is the Word of John 1, verse 1. It's not exactly the same concept as the Christian Logos.

Indeed. The law is spiritual (Romans 7) - and as Christ said:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. - Matthew 5:17-18

But Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh (John 1, Revelation 19). All that exists was spoken into being:

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. – Psalms 33:6

All that is, was brought into being by Him (John 1, Col 1, etc.)

Therefore, all things considered, I'm not surprised there is also a discernable special quality to the written Torah.

Praise God!

[Seven_0]

I do not believe Proverbs 25:2 has anything to do with so-called Bible codes (unless you have some exegesis to prove otherwise).

I do not know enough about Bible Codes to make a judgment. I think it is possible. My take on this verse is that God can conceal anything, diamonds, oil, ideas, and even doctrine. The second part of that verse may limit it, I don’t know.

The fact is that God did sign his work.

But you have no evidence to that claim. There is much conjecture, but God did not say He would reveal Himself in that way. It's all based on pure speculation.

I have not presented much evidence here. It would be very time consuming. The argument that I am trying to make is that there is a complicated structure in scripture. It is based on the numbers 1-7 with 8 starting a new series. There are other numbers that are significant, but these are the numbers that go through the whole Bible as you divide it into books, sections, subsections and so forth. I have often thought that this is rightly dividing the word of truth, but I would not be so bold as to assert it positively.

In the beginning, I was somewhat disturbed by the rearranging of the books and even the number of 63 books. By the time you get a few chapters into Genesis, the patterns are beginning to be established, also the meaning of the numbers is beginning to develop. What is incredible is that the patterns continue through the rest of the Bible. You may argue that the divisions are arbitrary or that the meaning of the numbers to general, I did too. But there are thousands of divisions. Each division carries a little more weight. The argument gets stronger and stronger as you proceed. I put an example of this in the “Standing in Awe” thread, the section on Joseph from Genesis in the main body of the thread. I would put it here but I don’t know how. Alamo Girl did it for me.

In the Hebrew there are only 24 books, so Grant seems to be arbitrary in his division. But my question is different, why did he need to "discover" 63 (7x3x3) books in the OT?

You got me one this one, I have never heard this before. According to F. W. Grant, the earliest works where Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles, were divided was the Septuagint. It did not seem to be a problem 100 years ago, so he did not defend it; however I am still comfortable with his claim because if you look at the three books in question you will see that they really are one book each. As for 24 books, can you give a link or evidence? 63 books or 66 books? We need to know.

Seven

[topcat54]

"In the Hebrew there are only 24 books, so Grant seems to be arbitrary in his division. But my question is different, why did he need to "discover" 63 (7x3x3) books in the OT?"

You got me one this one, I have never heard this before. According to F. W. Grant, the earliest works where Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles, were divided was the Septuagint. It did not seem to be a problem 100 years ago, so he did not defend it; however I am still comfortable with his claim because if you look at the three books in question you will see that they really are one book each. As for 24 books, can you give a link or evidence? 63 books or 66 books? We need to know.

Try this site: The 24 Books of the Hebrew Bible

But you still did not answer my fundamental question: Why the need to "discover" 63 (or some other multiple of seven) books on the OT? Isn't Grant really just forcing his hypothesis on the Bible? If you look hard enough you have "discover" patterns everywhere. Where has God told us that He built some self-authenticating pattern into the structure of the Bible for us to "discover"?

[js1138]

Where has God told us that He built some self-authenticating pattern into the structure of the Bible for us to "discover"?

Patterns can be found in anything. There are computer programs that can find "Bible Codes" in any random text.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping! Here's an excerpt from your contribution to the body article of the Standing in Awe thread:

Below is a list of the numbers and some of the words are generally connected with the respective numbers. Notice that the smaller the number, the more general the meaning. Seven completes the series and eight starts new one(new week) . There are other numbers but this will get you started. Just a few observations here; the larger the number, the fewer times you will see it but is becomes more conspicuous. Seven is the most conspicuous, though it is used less. This will become obvious as we look at the outline if Scripture.

. 1 Exclusion of difference, sufficiency, power, omnipotence, independence, perpetual, eternal, identity, concord, peace, congruity, harmony, sovereignty, election, promise, grace, birth

2 Difference, division, addition, growth, increase, competent testimony, seconding, salvation, relationship, service, dependence, contradiction, seed, separation, death

3 Cubic measure, solidity, fullness, trinity, actuality, manifestation, sanctification, spirit, resurrection

4 Weakness, testing, trial, failure, experience, number of the creature

5 God in Government, responsibility,

6 Manifestation of evil, or of the enemy’s work, work day week

7 Perfection, completes the series,

8 New beginning,

This is a part of the outline by the numbers From Genesis. This is where the rubber meets the road. This is God’s signature on his work, every page! Even the translators of the “Word”, preserved it without even knowing that it was there. This is where we can eliminate the forgeries. We see the hole left at the end of the Old Testament, looking for a fifth Pentateuch, and not needing more. It is not so complicated that few can understand it. It is right there for all to see. It has been hiding in plain sight, and now, more than a hundred years after it was discovered, it is still a secret.

7 The Christ life developed in full “image” (37:2-50:26)

1 God’s council and man’s rebellion . (37:2-36)

1 Visions of supremacy.(37:2-11)
2 Separated from his brethren.(37:12-36)

2 Judah’s separation from his brethren and humiliation.(38:1-30)

1 Tamar’s widowhood,(38:1-11)
2 Tamar’s deception.(38:12-23)
3 The manifestation. (38:24-30)

3 Zanhnath-paaneah, “the Reveler of Secrets.(39:1-41:52)

1 Unchanging integrity.(39:1-23)

1 Ruler in his masters house.(39:1-6)
2 The assault of sin and the accusation.(39:7-12)
3 His exaltation in prison.(39:13-23)
2 Joseph in prison the interpreter of life and death.(40:1-23)
3 A man in whom the spirit of life is.(41:1-52)
1 The king’s dream.(41:1-7)
2 The Interpretation.(41:8-36)
3 Raised from the dungeon to the throne.(41:37-52)

4 The days of famine.(41:53-47:27)

1 The first decent of his brethren into Egypt and call to repentance.(41:53-42)
1 Joseph the sole resource.(41:53-57)
2 His Brethren come for help.(42:1-5)
3 Manifested to themselves.(42:6-24)
4 Continued trial.(42:25-38)
2 The Second decent: Joseph their deliverer.(43:1-45:28)
1 Benjamin sent.(43:1-14)
2 Debating.(43:15-25)
3 With Joseph.(43:26-34)
4 New trial.(44:1-17)
5 Judah’s plea: the end reached at last.(44:18-34)
6 Joseph’s victory.(45:1-15)
7 The consummations.(45:16-28)
3 Israel Dwelling in Egypt.(46:1-47:12)
1 The call and Blessing of God.(46:1-7)
2 The increase of Jacob.(46:8-27)
3 Settling in the land.(46:28-47:12)
4 The land reduced under Pharaoh.(47:13-27)

5 The moral conclusion: the end as a way.(47:28-49:27)

1 Survival in death.(47:28-31)
2 The double portion of Joseph.(48:1-22)
1 the birthright made over to him.(48:1-7)
2 Manasseh and Ephraim: spiritual increase.(48:8-20)
3 Joseph’s portion in the land.(48:21-22)
3 The portion of the tribes.(49:1-27)
1 The son’s of Leah: the nation under the first covenant.(49:1-14)
1 The first-born losses the primacy.(49:1-4)
2 Confederacy and violence remedied by division.(49:5-7)
3 Judah’s exaltation: the spirit of praise.(49:8-12)
4 Israel turning to the Gentile world.(49:13)
5 Under the yolk on retribution.(49:14-15)
2 The children of the bondmaids. Deliverance at the lowest point of humiliation and distress under antichrist.(49:16-21)
1 Self government again in Israel, but the reign of the willful king.(49:16-18)
2 Conflict and deliverance.(49:19)
3 Enjoyment of their portion in the land.(49:20)
4 Practical condition.(49:21)
3 Rachel: seed of the barren wife. Manifestation of God in Christ for his people. (49:23-27)
1 Abiding power and grace: the blessing of the almighty.(49:23-26)
2 The Destruction of the enemies.(49:27)

6 The final victory of life over death, and of God over evil.(49:28-50:26)

1 Life unchanged by death.(49:28-50:14)
2 Joseph with his brethren.(50:15-26)
1 Unchanging grace and divine sovereignty in good.(50:15-21)
2 A witness in death. Bearing about in the body of the dying Jesus. (50:21-26)
(From the Numerical Bible by F. W. Grant)

With regard to the number of books involved in the Hebrew canon v the various other canons, or whether books of two parts ought be viewed as one --- if the structuring is inspired, then perhaps the structure itself is some indication of how the canon ought be construed.

As an example, if there were an 80% effortless pattern consistency in the structure - then should the existence of such a pattern itself suggest how the remaining 20% ought to be viewed?

As another example, if you were to add in apocryphal or pseudepigraphal manuscripts and the pattern was lost then would this be an indication they do not "belong"?

Conversely, if you were to combine I Samuel and II Samuel and the pattern is perfected would it be an indication that the two books should be viewed as one?

[topcat54]

With regard to the number of books involved in the Hebrew canon v the various other canons, or whether books of two parts ought be viewed as one --- if the structuring is inspired, then perhaps the structure itself is some indication of how the canon ought be construed.

As an example, if there were an 80% effortless pattern consistency in the structure - then should the existence of such a pattern itself suggest how the remaining 20% ought to be viewed?

As another example, if you were to add in apocryphal or pseudepigraphal manuscripts and the pattern was lost then would this be an indication they do not "belong"?

Conversely, if you were to combine I Samuel and II Samuel and the pattern is perfected would it be an indication that the two books should be viewed as one?

A-G, thanks for the reply. But I would submit that there is no objective way to answer these types of questions. They are simply the result of a theory.

The same thing is true with all the other information provided by Grant, et al. You either believe it or you don't. Your belief rests entirely on the authority of Grant, since it cannot be demonstrated conclusively from the divine Word.

[Alamo-Girl]

A-G, thanks for the reply. But I would submit that there is no objective way to answer these types of questions. They are simply the result of a theory. The same thing is true with all the other information provided by Grant, et al. You either believe it or you don't. Your belief rests entirely on the authority of Grant, since it cannot be demonstrated conclusively from the divine Word.

For me, Grant is no more or less a spiritual authority than any of the Jewish mathematicians who came up with the ELS, or the rabbis who preceded them, or any scientist, mathematician or philosopher. And the list goes on, for me, none of these are any more or less a spiritual authority than the Pope, Joseph Smith, Calvin, Arminius, Seven_0 or you.

The Word of God is God, is alive, is Jesus Christ, is in the beginning and the end, is the maker of all that there is. He is the authority, everything consists in Him and for Him. (John 1, Colossians 1, etc.)

There is no authority which I recognize other than those authorities He personally appoints and then, only for the responsibility to which He appointed them - whether apostles or prophets whom He named, governance, parents or husband.

He is not the Scripture, but the Scripture speaks of Him and is so sacred that not a jot or tittle will pass until everything is fulfilled in Him.

So for me, the value of all of these mere mortals - whether theologians, scientists, mathematicians, Freepers - is not that they are authorities or powers (they are not) but that they have shared amazing observations where sometimes I am moved by the indwelling Spirit to pause and praise God for the hearing of it.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

It gets even better. I keep giving you clues. Here's a big one: Exodus

[betty boop]

There is no authority which I recognize other than those authorities He personally appoints and then, only for the responsibility to which He appointed them - whether apostles or prophets whom He named, governance, parents or husband....

He is not the Scripture, but the Scripture speaks of Him and is so sacred that not a jot or tittle will pass until everything is fulfilled in Him....

So for me, the value of all of these mere mortals - whether theologians, scientists, mathematicians, Freepers - is not that they are authorities or powers (they are not) but that they have shared amazing observations where sometimes I am moved by the indwelling Spirit to pause and praise God for the hearing of it.

Oh, so beautifully said, Alamo-Girl! Truly I "praise God for the hearing ot it." Thank you oh so very much!