can anyone tell me the differences between Christian denominations?

[Vicomte13]

The better question to all of those out there utterly obsessed with Catholic/Orthodox devotion to Mary is to ask this: If GOD is offended to the adoration of His Mom, why is it that the only place on Earth with such a continuous outpouring of healings and miraculous cures, year after year, is the shrine to Mary at Lourdes? There is nowhere else on Earth like Lourdes in terms of the sheer volume and consistency of amazing healings, all under the aegis of a deep and abiding faith in God, expressed with deep veneration of Mary at that place.

We know from Jesus that Satan can't cast out Satan, so the "Satan does the miraculous healings at Mary's shrine" argument is bogus.
We know from the International Scientific Committee at Lourdes that many of the cures that happen there are not medically explicable.
We know that Jesus said "You will know them by their fruits."

The fruits of the adoration of Mary, at Lourdes, are thousands of cures a year, and every few years, an outright miraculous cure.
Satan could not do this.
Therefore, God had to do it.
Therefore, God approves of the adoration of Mary.
And therefore, being nasty about Mary is denying a manifestation of the power of God.

To put it another way: Nobody in his right mind should think that he is going to curry favor with God by picking on His mom.

[hobbes1]

A point our beloved, and now deceased Pastor used to make with Regularity.

[mercy]

Yeah but it's ONE verse for cripes sake! You don't build an entire church on one verse. Well you do but sensible men do not. It makes more sense to me that Christ was speaking to Peter as one of the Twelve and upon these Twelve he would build his church.

Which in fact is what he indeed did do!

He would not make Peter pope over the other eleven. It does not hold with what he did in his earthly ministry. It does not hold with Old Testament typology. God forbade the Hebrews from having a King. He allowed it finally with Saul but it caused all kinds of trouble and never ... never worked. Even great Solomon ended his days in idol wordhip and sin.

The RC church has a pope because men always corrupt the ways of God.

PS: If a papacy was on Jesus' mind it would not have been Peter at any cost. John was the stable one and the one closesf to The Lord.

[mercy]

***Nobody in his right mind should think that he is going to curry favor with God by picking on His mom.***

This sentence makes a Protestant feel like wretching. Your whole exposition sounds like a pep talk given to the executioners of the Inquisition before they were told to "Now get out there and root out these evil blaspheming heritical Protestants!"

People get healed out of their faith in God... or even just their faith in faith ... or by the placebo effect. Or they had a psycosomatic illness to begin with and it was displaced by their religious experience. More often than not there was no healing at all.

When I see RCs all over the earth running after false signs, silly shapes in windows or pieces of bread or sap running out of a wooden idols eyes it makes me sick. The word 'savage' or 'heathen' comes to mind.

Throughout Mexico and South America in many churches they have a life-sized bloody Christ lying in a crystal coffin and the genuflecting peasant women are just as likely to go see the local witchdocter for a cure when they are sick.

Protestant churches popping up by the thousands all over Latin-America teach the true power of Christ and the people are forsaking their witchdoctors.

When Catholics are taught to seek Mary they are diverted from true religion which is faith in Christ alone. We do not denigrate Mary. Only the diefication of her. You will say you do not diefy her but you do. It is plain and clear.

[Uri’el-2012]

I would recommend and encourage you to do a detailed "word study" of the word ROCK in the scriptures that Y'shua used. It will not support the roman church's position.

His willing bondslave
chuck

[Vicomte13]

"People get healed out of their faith in God... or even just their faith in faith ... or by the placebo effect. Or they had a psycosomatic illness to begin with and it was displaced by their religious experience. More often than not there was no healing at all. "

The trouble with this theory is that there is a panel of physicians that scientifically documents what goes on at Lourdes, and studies it. I didn't know that the congenitally blind could have their optic nerves grow back from the placebo effect. It happened at Lourdes. This is not medieval stuff. It is 20th Century documented medical fact. One of the reasons the International Scientific Committee is there is specifically to bring whatever happens at Lourdes under the microscope of science.

Anyway, let's assume that these folks were healed by faith in faith, as you put it. Great! But what's the CONTENT of that faith? Why, the veneration of Mary, at a shrine to Mary.

Now, no faith healing could ever occur if God did not allow it, could it?
Well, COULD IT?
So, all of these thousands of faith healings are medically documented to occur in a place devoted to something that you insist offends God.
Funny that God lets it happen there, specifically, and not elsewhere like that.

You could go and start reading the medical reports from the 70 or so documented miracles at Lourdes. They are available on line. You can read the whole thing. And then you can ponder: God, why do You let that happen THERE, with people who believe those things which offend You?

And at some point you will come to the realization that all of the wretching and objection and offense is on YOUR part. God obviously favors the Shrine to His mother at Lourdes, hence the avalanche of faith healings. YOU think that God has no right to favor a Catholic Shrine to Mary.
But He evidently disagrees with you.

The lesson to be learned is that you should bend your still neck and accept that the adoration of Mary such as Catholics practice it is manifestly pleasing to God, because God does not heal people by the thousands so openly and consistently any place else on Earth.

Where is the Protestant Lourdes?
Where?

Martin Luther did not have a problem with Mary.
Why do you?

[firebrand]

Here's the link. Can't tell which kind it is.

[NYer]

The RC church has a pope because men always corrupt the ways of God.

The Catholic Church has a pope because our Lord did not want to leave His followers orphans.

Throughout the Acts of the Apostles, St. Peter is clearly the leader of the Christian community (Acts 1:15, 5:1-10). And again, he is listed first among the Apostles in the New Testament (Matthew 10:2; Mark 3:16-19; Luke 6:13-14). Before St. Peter was crucified, he appointed St. Linus as his successor. Why should this practice not be carried on to the present day? There is an unbroken line of Popes from St. Peter down to the present-day Pope. The Papacy is the oldest institution in the Western World. How could it have survived 2000 years without the grace of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

St. Hegessipus in the 2nd century of the Church had already compiled a list of the popes, listing the current one at the time (Pope Anacletus) as the eleventh successor to St. Peter.

[infidel29]

Yeah! That`s what I call "word study"

[aimhigh]

You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my Church.’

Pure fiction, with no evidence to back this up. Unless you can produce an Aramaic book of Matthew, it's pure conjecture. The New Testament was written in Greek, and God isn't careless with His word. All scripture is God breathed. There is no other scripture to support Peter as the foundation of the church. None.

[Quester]

So where to go for a dyed-in-the-wool protestant who loves the tradition and the sacraments?

I don't know, but you find out let me know okay? I have left my denomination too.

What about your faith is most important to you ?

[NYer]

XeniaSt: I would recommend and encourage you to do a detailed "word study" of the word ROCK in the scriptures that Y'shua used. It will not support the roman church's position.

aimhigh The New Testament was written in Greek, and God isn't careless with His word.

It is very clear in Scripture that Jesus told Peter, whose name means "rock," that "you are Peter [rock], and on this rock I will build my church" (Matt. 16:18). The New Testament was written in Koine Greek - both petros and petra simply meant "rock." Furthermore, Jesus’ native language was Aramaic, not Greek, and in the Aramaic underlying this passage, the same word—kepha—would have been used in both instances.

The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.

The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in the Bible. To make sure that the apostles’ teachings would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, and the generation Timothy will teach.

The Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, regularly appealed to apostolic succession as a test for whether Catholics or heretics had correct doctrine. This was necessary because heretics simply put their own interpretations, even bizarre ones, on Scripture. Clearly, something other than Scripture had to be used as an ultimate test of doctrine in these cases.

For the early Fathers, "the identity of the oral tradition with the original revelation is guaranteed by the unbroken succession of bishops in the great sees going back lineally to the apostles.

"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]). Pope Clement I

The Early Church Fathers

[PeoplesRepublicOfWashington]

Norman McLean, in A River Runs Through It, said Methodists are just Baptists who can read.

[Uri’el-2012]

NYer; aimhigh; mercy
XeniaSt: I would recommend and encourage you to do a detailed "word study" of the word ROCK in the scriptures that Y'shua used. It will not support the roman church's position.

aimhigh The New Testament was written in Greek, and God isn't careless with His word.

It is very clear in Scripture that Jesus told Peter, whose name means "rock," that "you are Peter [rock], and on this rock I will build my church" (Matt. 16:18). The New Testament was written in Koine Greek - both petros and petra simply meant "rock." Furthermore, Jesus’ native language was Aramaic, not Greek, and in the Aramaic underlying this passage, the same word—kepha—would have been used in both instances.

.....

232 posted on 11/23/2004 4:50:37 PM MST by NYer

I know Y'shua spoke Hebrew as He spoke to the Pharisees in the Temple when He was twelve

NAsbU Luke 2:40 The Child continued to grow and become strong, increasing in wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him. 41 Now His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. 42 And when He became twelve, they went up there according to the custom of the Feast; 43 and as they were returning, after spending the full number of days, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. But His parents were unaware of it, 44 but supposed Him to be in the caravan, and went a day's journey; and they began looking for Him among their relatives and acquaintances. 45 When they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem looking for Him. 46 Then, after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.

I know Y'shua read and spoke Hebrew as He read from Isaiah in the synagogue in his home town.

NAsbU Luke 4:15 And He began teaching in their synagogues and was praised by all. 16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. 17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written, 18 "THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED, 19 TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD." 20 And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."

I know He read and spoke Koine Greek as He quoted from the Septuagint version of the scriptures.

I don't know if Y'shua spoke Aramaic. But I do know that G-d breathed His Holy Word in Koine Greek for a reason.

The New Testament was written in Koine Greek - both petros and petra simply meant "rock."

You need to improve your understanding of Koine Greek One is Rock and the other(peter) is pebble.

It is very clear unless you use eisegesis on Matthew 16:18.

Y'shua was was referring to himself as the ROCK as is found in the scriptures of His day.

Start your word study in
Deuteronomy 32:3 ; Du 32:15 ; Du 32:18 ; 1Sa 2:2 ; 2 Sa 22:3 ; Sa 22:3
2 Sa 22:47 ; Ps 18:2 ; Ps 18:46 ; Ps 42:9 ; Ps 62:7 ; Ps 78:35 ; Ps 89:26 Ps 94:22 ; Is 17:10 ; Is 26:4 ;
Is 44:8 ; Hab 1:12

Look in an NASB

Who are you going to believe ?

Some men in Rome ?

or the Word of G-d?

His willing bondslave

chuck

[mercy]

I'm sorry. I don't believe it. I don't believe those guys on TBN with the beufonte hairdos either. You probably think Joan of Arc was a true saint. I think she was obviously a psychotic.

My faith has only one ground. The Word of God.

[ladyinred]

What about your faith is most important to you ?

My, that is an interesting question. I must admit that threw me, as I haven't stopped to think about it in those terms. The most important thing is my relationship with Christ, followed by obeying the 10 commandments, which the former denomination I belonged to keep saying was under the law.

I want the truth and I don't want doctrines of men and I am beginning to think that is too much to ask.

[NYer]

I know Y'shua spoke Hebrew as He spoke to the Pharisees in the Temple when He was twelve.

Aramaic displaced Hebrew for many purposes among the Jews, a fact reflected in the Bible, where portions of Ezra and Daniel are in Aramaic. Some of the best known stories in biblical literature, including that of Belshazzar’s feast with the famous "handwriting on the wall" are in Aramaic.

Among the Dead Sea Scrolls, the remains of the library of a Jewish sect from around the turn of the Era, are many compositions in Aramaic. These new texts also provide the best evidence for Palestinian Aramaic of the sort used by Jesus and his disciples.

Since the Jews spoke Aramaic, and knowledge of Hebrew was no longer widespread, the practice arose in the synagogue of providing the reading of the sacred Hebrew scriptures with an Aramaic translation or paraphrase, a "Targum" In the course of time a whole array of targums for the Law and other parts of the Bible were composed. More than translations, they incorporated much of traditional Jewish scriptural interpretation.

In their academies the rabbis and their disciples transmitted, commented, and debated Jewish law; the records of their deliberations constitute the two talmuds: that of the land of Israel and the much larger Babylonian Talmud. Although the talmuds contain much material in Hebrew, the basic language of these vast compilations is Aramaic (in Western and Eastern dialects).

The Aramaic Language

Jesus Christ spoke Ancient Aramaic, the language in which the disciples and apostles preached the Gospel and the scribes recorded the Scriptures. The New Testament has been preserved in the sacred scribal language since the Apostolic Age.

Aramaic Bible

Aramaic Consecration

Byow mo how daq dom ha sho dee leh
ma' bed hy eh
nsa bel lah mo be dow qa dee sho to.
Ou ba rekh
ou qa desh
waq so
ou ya bel tal mee dow kad o mar:
Sab a khool meh neh kul khoon:
Ho no den ee tow faghro deel
day lo fy koun wah lof sagee hey
meh teq seh ou meh tee heb
lhoo so yo dhow beh was ha yeh dal 'o lam
'ol meen.

English Translation

On the day before his life-giving passion,
Jesus took bread in his holy hands.
He blessed,
sanctified,
broke,
and gave it to his disciples, saying:
Take and eat it, all of you:
This is my body
which is broken and delivered for you
and for many,
for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

[NYer]

However, I decided that I needed to truly KNOW what the truth of the Church that Christ established was, so I did my research. I could go on and on (and would, if you are serious about knowing what I found), but suffice it to say that there is no doubt in my mind now, after having been to a protestant "Bible Only" church for many years, that the Catholic (Universal) Church is what Christ founded. Period.

Thank you, 'ImaGraftedBranch', for this witness to the faith. Welcome home!

As a cradle catholic, educated pre Vatican Council II, many catholics have lost their sense of direction. At the same time though, others from so many denominations, have sought the truth and found themselves swimming the Tiber, to Rome. It is their faith, the result of extensive study, that has nourished my own. Their testimonies uphold all that we were taught over the years.

jaybee and ladyinred - might I make several suggestions. (If it is not an imposition, why not freepmail ImaGraftedBranch, to learn more about this individual's search).

If you have access to cable television, check with your local service provider to see if you have EWTN. Every Monday night, at 8pm EST, Marcus Grodi hosts a live program entitled The Journey Home. His guests come from all denominations and relate their personal struggles as they set off in search of the truth. Since it is live, you can call in or email questions. You can learn more about this program, along with a list of upcoming guests at this link:

JOURNEY HOME

Marcus Grodi also hosts a web site for those seeking to learn more about the Catholic faith. That site offers a forum for discussion. You can reach that site at this link:

COMING HOME NETWORK

Another excellent resource in addressing your questions is Catholic Answers .

All 3 of these resources will provide you with different insights into not only the Catholic Church but why so many, like ImaGraftedBranch, after years of inquiry and search, along with exhaustive research, have come to understand that this is the church founded by Jesus Christ.

As a catholic who has also sought to deepen my relationship with our Lord, I would like to point out that the Catholic Church is both Western and Eastern. Growing up in the US, I was only exposed to the Latin Rite. It is only recently, that I have discovered the Eastern Catholic Church. Within the one Catholic Church there are in fact many churches which maintain their own traditions of theology, liturgy, spirituality, and government that are quite different from those usually associated with "Roman," or Latin (Western) Catholicism. You can learn more about these here:

CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES

As most of us realize, the Church began in the East. Our Lord lived and died and resurrected in the Holy Land. The Church spread from Jerusalem throughout the known world. As the Church spread, it encountered different cultures and adapted, retaining from each culture what was consistent with the Gospel. In the city of Alexandria, the Church became very Egyptian; in Antioch it remained very Jewish; in Rome it took on an Italian appearance and in the Constantinople it took on the trappings of the Roman imperial court. All the churches which developed this way were Eastern, except Rome. Most Catholics in the United States have their roots in Western Europe where the Roman rite predominated. It has been said that the Eastern Catholic Churches are "the best kept secret in the Catholic Church."

Earlier this year, I attended mass at a Maronite Catholic Church, was totally captivated by their liturgy, and joined the parish. It is from Jewish roots that the church of Antioch sprung. In fact, the church of Antioch was founded by St. Peter and it was there that the terms "Christian" and "Catholic" were first used. The first Christians were Jews and entire communities came to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Evidence from archaeological studies of Maronite church buildings show that they had earlier been synagogues. To this day, the Maronite Church retains its Jewish roots more than any other Catholic rite, as evidenced by its use of Aramaic/Syriac and by the prayers which remain faithful to Semantic and Old Testament forms.

Like ImaGraftedBranch, I would willingly assist anyone with questions about the Catholic Church. Before all else, take some time to pray and ask our Lord to guide and direct you. May He bless you on your journey.

[Cronos]

Saying the Our Father in the Rosary -- to GOD is praying. The Hail Marys are not prayers TO Mother Mary. She can't grant our desires -- only God can.

[Cronos]

Yeah but it's ONE verse for cripes sake! You don't build an entire church on one verse.

Tsk, tsk, using the Lord's name in vain....

The church isn't built on ONE verse alone (it IS built on Peter the Rock though ;-P)

Well you do but sensible men do not. It makes more sense to me that Christ was speaking to Peter as one of the Twelve and upon these Twelve he would build his church.

True -- and the others are equal. The Orthodox Patriarchs and the Bishop of Rome ARE equals, the Pope being but the first amongst equals. Pope John Paul II recently re-affirmed that with the Patriarch of Constantinople.

Granted that at times Popes have been uppity with regards to this, but the Church teachings are clear -- first among EQUALS.

He would not make Peter pope over the other eleven. It does not hold with what he did in his earthly ministry. It does not hold with Old Testament typology. God forbade the Hebrews from having a King. He allowed it finally with Saul but it caused all kinds of trouble and never ... never worked. Even great Solomon ended his days in idol wordhip and sin.

The Pope is NOT a King, he is NOT a ruler over the other Patriarchs. he IS their leader and with God's grace helps maintain the unity of the Church. You really hvae the wrong idea on all aspects of Christianity. Please throw away the propaganda literature where you got this information and read what the Church truly teaches.

For instance, the Maronnite and GReek Uniate Churchs are distinct from the Latin rite church, but they are part of the Catholic church, with different traditions, but still part of the "catholic" (universal) Church

The RC church has a pope because men always corrupt the ways of God.

Another silly one-liner. Have you even READ anything about Church history?

PS: If a papacy was on Jesus' mind it would not have been Peter at any cost. John was the stable one and the one closesf to The Lord.

and how would you know what was on God's mind?