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Has anyone here ever run into the "centering prayer" movement? I did in the Catholic Church (several years ago) and also now I have been hearing about it from a non-Catholic.

Overall, I agree with the author of this piece.

Comments?

1 posted on 10/15/2004 12:51:27 PM PDT by fishtank
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To: Diago; narses; Loyalist; BlackElk; american colleen; saradippity; Dajjal; Land of the Irish; ...

Thanks for posting this. This is an excellent and well-written article. It serves an important purpose in alerting Catholics to a very dangerous problem. The article also points out the way in which this "centering prayer" technique is often foisted upon unsuspecting Catholics without advance warning or even a description of what they are doing. So it is important to be informed and on guard.

Of a few quibbles with the article, the main one I would point out is that the article implies that this Buddhist-Christian syncretism only occurred some years ago at Spencer Abbey where centering prayer was developed. But it has continued until the current day. In fact, a news item within the past few weeks related that one of the monks there was recently made a "Zen master."


3 posted on 10/15/2004 1:25:37 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: fishtank
Comments?

I can't figure out how to drag predestination into this, so I'll just keep quite. ;-)

4 posted on 10/15/2004 1:27:59 PM PDT by Gamecock (Though Christians be not kept altogether from falling, yet they are kept from falling altogether. WS)
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To: fishtank

The basic flaw I see in all these types of meditations is the self-obsession.


6 posted on 10/15/2004 1:33:27 PM PDT by P.O.E. (John Kerry: The" you're rubber and I'm glue" candidate.)
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To: fishtank
There is a group of nuns that teach this in the Diocese of Peoria. They have a retreat house over in the Quad Cities. I would assume they have the blessing of the Bishop here since the diocesan paper prints schedules, etc. for the place. I see if I can find more.

A_R

7 posted on 10/15/2004 1:44:15 PM PDT by arkady_renko
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To: fishtank; MarMema; kosta50
Has anyone here ever run into the "centering prayer" movement? I did in the Catholic Church (several years ago) and also now I have been hearing about it from a non-Catholic

I got in a twit and said I would never set foot in a church again nor post in this forum. I hereby retract those words, and am sorry that I got upset, but I don't know where I will go from here.

A priest I liked very much offered to teach me centering prayer. A red flag went up, but I was open to talking with him about other things (lots of issues). I even had the book. Maybe I read something somewhere negative about it around the same time. I can't remember.

I don't know how we are supposed to pray and I don't like to climb all over anyone who does it differently than me.

I try to pray like Jesus taught us in scripture, in His name, in my own language, sometimes mentally and sometimes out loud.

Do I think God will send down lightning bolts if you don't get everything just right? No. Do I think certain religious practices can be dangerous. Yes. Do I know who is right and who is wrong? No.

Centering prayer has been crossed off my list for a long time as an option. That's one mistake I escaped. I made many, many others.

9 posted on 10/15/2004 2:09:28 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: fishtank
Has anyone here ever run into the "centering prayer" movement? I did in the Catholic Church (several years ago) and also now I have been hearing about it from a non-Catholic.

I have. It is basically another facet of the TM movement. One has to understand about some Eastern teachings, Christianity is not incompatible to their goals, however, the reverse is not true. Many eastern concepts are not compatible with Christian theology.

We don't seek the "god" within, we seek God as a objective being outside ourselves. I think the concept that God can't act except without man is a gateway to this heresy. God is a supernatural being outside our existence. God can act totally without us, he make it so we CAN make that step to him, not waiting for us to get some trance state to act.

It used to be that labor was a way to glorify God, well in the TM/occult/eastern movements I was involved in, labor was a way to meditate. It is funny to see the Monastic Rules being supplanted by these activities to simply be turned around back to what it was before, except with a heresy added in. Like I said TM has no problems being embedded in Christianity, but their faith ceases to be Christian with TM added.
11 posted on 10/15/2004 2:32:35 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: fishtank

One of the powerful aspects of the new age movement(s) is that people are looking for a change from their daily experience. The Church's long and complex tradition (more complex than certain people are willing to admit), if taught more fully, can bring all the positives that people seek when they turn to the 'new age' BS, with none of the contraorthodox baggage or blind paths.

Instead of being watered down new ageism raising it's head in the Church, it could also be embraced, and nurtured, where it is licit and not outside of the realm of Church teaching - it's up to the Bishops to determine this. That said, I think most recognize a little bit of inculturalisation has never hurt the Church - quite the contrary - the synthesis has been good for it, I think.

I happen to disagree with the article's contention about the Cloud of Unknowing: Therese and St. John of the Cross express similar ideas, for instance. Reasonable people can and should come forward and discuss their concerns - I have no problem with quiet inquisition of such practices, but at least be familiar with the basis, and don't be too narrow in your critique: the Catholic Church is more interesting, and bigger, than any individual's view of it is.

Definitely don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially if there is good stuff coming of it. It's very easy to subscribe bad motives to the well-intentioned. The "Satan's Strategy" thing is this in spades - completely over the top, and undercuts the article's more reasonable contentions.


12 posted on 10/15/2004 2:41:35 PM PDT by jrpascucci (Terrorae delenda est)
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To: fishtank
I know some people who are big on Taize and always trying to get others to go. Something does not feel right about it and I always duck out of going.
14 posted on 10/15/2004 2:49:09 PM PDT by Flying Circus
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To: fishtank
fishtank, going to bump this for later reading. I skimmed the article and the author seems spot on. However, I would mention that contemplative prayer could be misunderstood as coming from this same centering prayer tradition. This is not the case. The Carmelites have been practicing contemplative prayer, as have many other religious orders (Carthusians, Poor Clares, etc.) for a very long time. I can speak of the Carmelite tradition and point to St. John of the Cross for such a tradition.

Anyway, my two cents worth for now. Gotta get back to work.

19 posted on 10/15/2004 3:44:27 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (Don't tell my mother I work for CBS. She thinks I'm a towel boy in a bordello.)
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To: fishtank
I ran into it a couple of years ago at a parish held Lenten 'retreat'. Fr. John Burchill, OP and Sr. Barbara Metz SnD taught the 'class' which took place in the church itself.

Sr. Metz asked us to close our eyes and meditate on Jesus while saying a 'mantra' over and over again. It could be any word at all, religious or secular. In a sing song low voice she went on about imagining Jesus walking towards us, dressed in 'either traditional biblical garb' or 'a new sweatshirt and levi jeans' whichever made us feel more comfortable. He sits down beside us and hugs us and looks into our eyes... blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, my feeling was one of alarm because this was basically a hypnotizing excercise putting us on the same level as our Saviour. I just watched the nun, amazed at this absolute crap she was spewing. It was the same TM garbage that some of my friends studied in the 70s but she inserted the name Jesus in it. The whole thing is to wipe out what is all around you and bring you to your 'center' so we can commune with Jesus Christ and reach a totally new level. No suffering, no 'dry' times, no building up to new understanding through years of prayer and sacrifice, instant gratification if you will.

Not surprisingly, this nun and priest also teach the enneagram and have authored a book on it. They are also practicers of 'kything' which is spiritually communing with someone no matter where that person is. It's all self awareness designed to get to know ourselves better.

I've seen a priest (older, they all are) teach this stuff on Boston Catholic Television and I wrote a letter to the priest who runs the tv station (another reason not to give $) to explain why this centering prayer is not Catholic. I got a very curt letter basically telling me that I was wrong and that many people love it.

Hey, all I know is that when Jesus was asked how we should pray, he taught the "Our Father" which, when you think about it, keeps us aware of each other as children of God and is completely lacking in 'I'.

I've read the original "centering prayer" book by Fr. Basil Pennington and it is really a rehash of Eastern spirituality. Here's something that Fr. Mitch Pacwa (used to practice centering prayer) "The technique is still one where you put the intellect on "hold." You know, you dismiss all thoughts, you know, hold on to no thoughts, react to no thoughts, retain no thoughts. These are some of his [Pennington's] phrases. And why? The rational mind is one of the characteristic gifts of what it means to be a human being. And I don't see Christ ever saying, you know, stop thinking, stop using reason, clear your mind. He never taught that."

21 posted on 10/15/2004 4:16:28 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: fishtank
This article is so excellent. Thank you for posting it.

Centering prayer differs from Christian prayer in that the intent of the technique is to bring the practitioner to the center of his own being. There he is, supposedly, to experience the presence of the God who indwells him. Christian prayer, on the contrary, centers upon God in a relational way, as someone apart from oneself.

This explains the difference between centering "prayer" and relational prayer so very clearly. As Christians we are in a relationship with God, even though He becomes one with us, He remains distinct. Prayer is our response to Him; He is the Source, the One who draws near to us that we may draw near to Him.

Centering prayer is becoming so rampant in the religious echelons of the church, and spreading among the laity. It promotes a psuedo-spirituality centered on oneself. It needs to be exposed for what it is. I hope in this year of the Eucharist, more people will be drawn to Eucharistic Adoration where true relational prayer can take place.

26 posted on 10/15/2004 8:10:31 PM PDT by Dusty Rose
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To: fishtank
fishtank

Would one or more of you please share your knowledge of a correct way to "pray". I stay with the Mass, rosary and Divine Mercy prayers. Outside of that I'm afraid to venture.

Over time, (in the past) I have heard sermons or read articles of what the 'Our Father' really says, but of course when you're looking for something you can never find it *s*. I hang onto the 'Our Father' because it's in the Bible, Mass, and "forgive us our trespasses, *as* we forgive those who trespass against us," (<-- that statement alone gives me chills, but when I am having a problem I go over and over this one line (sometimes for days on end) and it really helps me to forgive.)

Thank you for posting the article on "centering prayer", for me this is not the right way. I know not to "empty" my mind and "open the door".

I do not post very often, but I do read most of the post in the "religion" section at Free Republic. (funny, I get more from here than I do in most the Churches in my area)

Thank you in advance.

roamer
27 posted on 10/15/2004 10:26:34 PM PDT by roamer
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To: fishtank

I went to a woman's book group at my Catholic church. "Imagine you are leaning back against a tree - it is supporting you - its roots are running deep into the ground and its branches high over head. Feel the roots going deep into the ground..."
Candles. A little bubbling fountain. Incense. branches and flowers like a pagan alter. A participant who said she is getting her doctorate and studying Kali!!!! this woman has a child in the parish school and is a communion minister.

The pastor is a very good man, a good priest, and orthodox. I told him about the book the group was using by Sister somebody and he did not seem too concerned. The pastoral associate stopped working for the parish a year or so later.
It bugs the h*** out of me that the parish does not even have a supportive intercessory mother's prayer group because no sufficiently credetialled or sufficiently known to the pastor person has stepped up to lead it - but this feminist pagan "professional" was getting away with sacrilege in the rectory basement because she had the credentials for it.

The church leaders can be such control freaks and I understand them not wanting strange things happening in the name of the church but the strange things are happening anyway.

Mrs VS


31 posted on 10/16/2004 8:01:33 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: fishtank

This article reminds me of conversations I recently had with a relative.
We are both catholics and strive to be obedient to church teachings.
We clashed on this "centering prayer" issue.
The issue of Thomas Merton came up. I don't know much about Thomas Merton, but it appeared to me that his influence had convinced my relative that delving into eastern meditation practices is acceptable.
This article is helpful - although I doubt it will "trump" Thomas Merton in my conversations with this man.


34 posted on 10/16/2004 9:59:09 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: fishtank

I both disagree and agree with the author.

Having read the comments posted, I would just like to point out some things:
1.It is indeed correct that we are in relationship with God, and that God is distinct from us. But to say that God does not dwell within us is contrary to Jesus' own words in John's Gospel, for example 14:23. God indeed lives in us, and we in him. Jesus says that he and the Father love us, and make their home in us. We must be careful in this, because if we take the idea of God being separate from us too far, we may begin to conclude that God is also out of our reach, or to a form of Jansenistic heresy wherein we have to appease God, when in fact God invites us to pray to him unceasingly, not only in adoration, but also in times of need, and to receive his free offer of forgiveness and love. We need only look to the Psalms and the Our Father to see how God teaches us to pray. We are called to pray to Him in sincerity of heart, truthfully expressing our feelings, and trusting in His love and mercy.
2. It is correct to say that any spirituality that reduces itself to navel gazing is dangerous. But knowledge of self is an essential part of any true spirituality. The Church recognizes this, and this is why we are invited to do an examination of conscience at the end of the day, and why the sacrament of reconciliation is so essential to our lives as Catholics. EVERYONE is called to know themselves. Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, and all of the great Catholic mystics have said this. Francis de Sales, one of our most beloved, holy and human saints said that to serve and love God is to be yourself, and to be it well. The Church herself teaches us that we ultimately answer to our consciences, because that is where God speaks to us in our inmost being. See the Vatican II documents for reference to this. Now, one must have an informed conscience to be able to do this, but this is a separate matter for discussion.
3. It is correct to say that while all good prayer should be directed toward God, it should not be done with the intention of "getting" God. However, prayer in itself is not dangerous. It is how we use it. I agree with the author that if the centering prayer is used simply to come to some higher consciousness of self, then it is a danger, but the Jesus prayer, which uses the same technique, can actually help us to recall that we are in the presence of God. We need only look to the Scriptures to see the truth of this. Recall that the Pharisees were so worried about having purified vessels to observe kashrut, but Jesus said they should be worried about the inside of the cup, meaning themselves. In the same way, the rosary can be a "dangerous" prayer, if it is not prayed properly. I recall the story of two women who prayed the rosary loudly through Mass because they were instructed by the Bayside visionary that Mass not celebrated in Latin was a tool of the devil. When we are not disposed to God, then any form of prayer, even Mass becomes dangerous, because it can make us self-righteous, and we can try to use God to make ourselves or our way of thinking more important than Him.
4. There is an underlying assumption that the European way of personal prayer, i.e., Rosary, Divine Mercy, is the only form of personal devotional prayer. Please do not misunderstand me. These are very good and important prayers that I myself also pray. But our Christian brothers and sisters in India, for example employ yoga techniques in prayer, and our Eastern brothers and sisters employ some Buddhist principles in their prayer. Does this make them somehow against the Church or against Christ? Not at all. We need only recognize that the Church in those areas is growing by leaps and bounds, and that they have tremendous numbers of vocations to the religious life and priesthood, of men and women who are dedicated to living in Jesus Christ. They are not proclaiming Vishnu or Buddha, and they celebrate the Eucharist, the Mass, with utmost reverence. They have greater hope in God in their societies than we do here in the West.
Also, we need only remember St. Matteo Ricci, who used the Chinese language and spirituality to help the Chinese to become Christians. He used their understanding of life and God to help them to understand Jesus. The Dominicans came in and said that he was not preaching "orthodoxy." The result is that Ricci was martyred, as were thousands of Chinese Christians, and the Church has been unable to proclaim freely and openly the good news of Jesus Christ.
5. In response to Roamer, asking how to pray, I say turn to God with all of your feelings and thoughts. The rosary and the Divine Mercy are wonderful prayers. But also say what is in your heart, both good and bad, and listen to what God says to you, particularly in the Scriptures. Look at the psalms. They express happiness, sadness, anger, joy, desperation, and the rest of the gamut of human emotions. And they are all prayers to God.
Our saints also teach us how to pray. Look at St. Augustine's , or St. Therese of Lisieux's or St. Teresa of Avila's autobiographies. They described all of the sin and all of the blessings in their lives, because their stories are not ultimately about themselves, but about the grace, mercy and love that our God has bestowed on them. Do not be afraid to tell God what is in your heart. Look at the story of the Prodigal Son. The son asked for everything that he felt he was owed. This is the same as us praying for the things we want, both good and bad. Did the father give him everything? Indeed, just as our Father gives us all we need. Later, when the son was sorry, he asked for the father's forgiveness, and the father not only forgave him, but threw a party for him. The Scripture tells us, too, that there is greater joy over one sinner who has repented, than over 99 who have never sinned. This doesn't mean, of course, that we should sin, but we should really understand how much God loves us, and how easily we can turn to him.
6. I did not want to leave out the Mass. I just want to affirm Roamer by saying that according to Vatican II, the Mass should be the font and culmination of our lives. So it is the excellent prayer to be in communion with our brothers and sisters, and to celebrate Christ coming to us in the Word of God, and in his Body and Blood.
7. Please do not misunderstand Teresa of Avila. All people are called to the contemplative life. Never forget that she taught her way of prayer not only to the nuns and friars, but also to the women and men who sought her advice. The contemplative life does not necessarily mean being holed up in a cloister. It means instead actively recognizing and enjoying being in the presence of God. Remember that while God may be "other," He is not far from us. On the contrary, he is very near. We cannot be in relationship with someone far away, but we can with someone who accompanies us in our journey of life. Some may argue the "our Father in heaven" point, but remember that Jesus said that he will be with us until the end of time. See the end of Mark's gospel for this. He also has sent us the Spirit. See any of the gospels for this. Our own Catholic tradition teaches us that God is near. In Scripture, we are told that "He is near to all who call upon Him."
In order to help us to pray, Teresa and others suggest that we read from Scripture and then think about what is being said, and think about how it speaks to our lives today. Remember that the Bible is the Word of God, so it can speak to us.
We must, obviously, be careful about how to understand the Scriptures, and that is why we have many good Scripture scholars in the Church who write many good books on how we can understand the Bible in the light of our Catholic tradition.

In the end the matter of how to pray is simple. Turn to God with both your joys and your sorrows, your anger and your peace. Have confidence in His love and mercy. And remember that, as St. Paul says, love consists in this: not that we have loved God, but that God has loved us first, and gave us his only Son as a sign of that love.


36 posted on 10/17/2004 8:22:56 AM PDT by threadbare (Pax Christi.)
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