Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

8-year-old's first Holy Communion invalidated by Church
Newsday ^ | August 12, 2004 | John Curran

Posted on 08/12/2004 10:41:10 AM PDT by sidewalk

BRIELLE, N.J. -- An 8-year-old girl who suffers from a rare digestive disorder and cannot consume wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained none, violating Catholic doctrine. Now, Haley Waldman's mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition _ celiac sprue disease _ should not exclude her from participating in the sacrament, in which Roman Catholics eat consecrated wheat-based wafers to commemorate the last supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; celiacsprue; eucharist; holycommunion; look4arealchurch; ratzinger
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 221-240241-260261-280 ... 521-538 next last
To: sinkspur
Two paragraphs down Redemptionis Sacramentum repeatedly refers to wine, which would indicate fermentation and alcohol. The stage of fermentation is not specified, but pasteurized grape juice wouldn't do. The wine may be of low alcohol content, but it should still be wine.

That also ignores what I was commenting on in post 17 where you said:
The Church could also make an exception, since the matter for the Eucharist is Church law.
Please excuse me if I misunderstood you, but in the context I read it, that sounds a lot like saying the rice wafer could be used instead if only the Church wanted to.
Would you care to clarify what you were actually trying to say?
241 posted on 08/12/2004 3:19:54 PM PDT by Flying Circus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies]

To: Flying Circus
From Ratzinger's 1994 letter:

Nevertheless, the permission to use mustum can be granted by Ordinaries to priests affected by alcoholism or other conditions which prevent the ingestion of even the smallest quantity of alcohol, after the presentation of a medical certificate.

C. By mustum is understood fresh juice from grapes, or juice preserved by suspending its fermentation (by means of freezing of other methods which do not alter its nature).

Rice could be used, if it were not consecrated and intincted in consecrated wine or mustum.

242 posted on 08/12/2004 3:26:11 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Who is the father of the Sons of Zebedee"?--Cardinal Fanfani)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 241 | View Replies]

To: Lilllabettt

"Exactly! The Perfect Sacrifice, the Eucharist, instituted by Christ in his Passover ritual, which he commanded all of us to repeat until he comes again, with the Form (the words) and the Matter (unleavened wheat) he used."

I agree we should do it, because Jesus told us to do it to remember him. It is not, however, the basis of, or even a condition of, our salvation. BTW, when I was growing up Catholic, the Eucharist was leavened bread. Oops. I'm sure Jesus wanted to be in that host, but, you know, rules are rules.


243 posted on 08/12/2004 3:28:04 PM PDT by armydoc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 236 | View Replies]

To: Lilllabettt

Perhaps you could cite the passage which offends you so that we might all read it.


244 posted on 08/12/2004 3:30:47 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
My point is that anyone impies that a child has to take a wheat host to receive their first communion is being hypocritical to Christs message.

The Church certainly isn't saying that.

It would seem that a child with this 'life and death' problem should easily be allowed to have their first communion with the wine/juice alone...

This would be completely valid but the girl's mother is refusing this option.

...or a substitute non-wheat bread.

This would be illicit and is completely unnecessary for this situation since receiving the Eucharist under one species (the consecrated wine alone) would be a completely valid first communion.

If not, the church is being 'very' hypocritical.

The Church is being completely consistent in this instance.

245 posted on 08/12/2004 3:36:12 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies]

To: Conservative til I die
You are an imbecile.

Ah, that true church of Christ "spirit" ...

No one is forcing the girl to eat Communion, which would kill her.

That is true, only that if she wants both elements like all the other children the church is doing its worse to make this child 'not' be treated equally. If there is no matter what the host contains as long as she drinks the 'blood', then let her have a rice host and the 'blood'. As someone already stated would be a valid communion with just one valid element (valid as the RCC defines, not Jesus).

But, no, the first communion is declared invalid for silliness.

The church is doing here what it does so many other places, i.e. let's divorce people feel 'lesser' than non-divorced (I know, I was one), 'annulled' feel lesser than married, and now letting a girl that can't take wheat feel lesser than her classmates ('sorry little girl, since you can't have a wheat host your first communion is invalidated').

Sorry friend, the church that I was raised in (RCC) just continues to show that it is out of touch with the message of God's word.

YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO COMMUNION, OR TO CALL YOUR FAUX-COMMUNION THE REAL DEAL.

Our Lord and Savior gives me every right. Just as he showed the money changers when they made a mockery of His Father's house, the legalist church rules that make one child 'lesser' than another in an act of recieving His Communion makes a mockery out of that church.

246 posted on 08/12/2004 3:36:14 PM PDT by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480
This subject makes me wonder ... whatever happened to the gift of Faith?

If one does NOT TRULY believe in the Transubstantiation, then there might be a reaction to the wheat "wafer" -- if one does not believe in the True Presence one might worry about the "germs" of others in reception from general hands or a common chalice.

If one does not TRULY believe in one's faith that God will NOT send to a marriage more children than He desires -- then one will possibly resort to outside interference with conception (NFP, etc).

This itself should be a wide discussion and looked into by all hearts who proclaim the Faith ... How much or how little will man leave to God and BELIEVE with a deep FAITH! How many know the true meaning of the word?

I do not negate works at all -- but when True Faith is shallow or not total, all kinds of odd situations arise.
247 posted on 08/12/2004 3:36:59 PM PDT by AKA Elena (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Lucky
Sorry, I don't have any Protestant Bibles lying around. But I do remember reading Martin Luther's complaints about St. James, and about how he didn't belong in the canon. And about how he [Luther] inserted the word "alone" because that was St.Paul's 'point'.

Anyway, wouldn't the words "faith alone" HAVE to be in the Bible? Because according to Sola Scriptura, everything HAS to be in the Bible. Never mind that the Bible ACTUALLY says salvation is by faith and works. Of course, Sola Scriptura isn't in the Bible either ...
248 posted on 08/12/2004 3:37:46 PM PDT by Lilllabettt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
There is no hierarchy among the Blood and the Body. One is as good as the other. Receiving both or receiving one. It makes no difference. It is the "sign" that is more complete; NOT the actual Grace. And if everyone were adequately catechized, they would realize this.
249 posted on 08/12/2004 3:42:00 PM PDT by Lilllabettt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 246 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Lucky
Luther added the word alone to Rom 3:28 in his German translation, so that it would read "we account a man to be justified by faith alone".
If your Papist makes such an unnecessary row about the word 'alone,' say right out to him: 'Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,' and say: 'Papists and asses are one and the same thing.' I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word 'alone' is not in the Latin or the Greek text, and it was not necessary for the Papists to tell me that. It is true that those letters are not in it, which letters the jackasses look at, as a cow stares at a new gate ... It shall remain in my New Testament, and if all the Popish donkeys were to get mad and beside themselves, they will not get it out.

250 posted on 08/12/2004 3:42:14 PM PDT by gbcdoj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio

Jesus did not say our unleavened bread had to be made from wheat or it would not be accepted, if it had been an order he would have clarified it....he did not. So therefore 'unleavened is key' not the flour used.


251 posted on 08/12/2004 3:43:07 PM PDT by Kackikat (,Kerry=the counterfeit, GWBush is the real deal!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Lilllabettt
There is no hierarchy among the Blood and the Body. One is as good as the other. Receiving both or receiving one. It makes no difference. It is the "sign" that is more complete; NOT the actual Grace. And if everyone were adequately catechized, they would realize this.

A clear voice is heard! thanks my friend. thats a good way of putting it .. 'if everone were adequately catechized ..', well everyone sure talks as if they are, don't they!! ;-) God Bless

252 posted on 08/12/2004 3:44:15 PM PDT by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 249 | View Replies]

To: gbcdoj

What a sweet Saint good old Martin was, wasnt he. Just full of love and humility.


253 posted on 08/12/2004 3:45:10 PM PDT by Lilllabettt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 250 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
If there is no matter what the host contains as long as she drinks the 'blood', then let her have a rice host and the 'blood'.

The rice host would promote idolatry.

Yet by no means should an unconsecrated host be given in place of a consecrated one; because the priest by so doing, so far as he is concerned, makes others, either the bystanders or the communicant, commit idolatry by believing that it is a consecrated host; because, as Augustine says on Ps. 98:5: "Let no one eat Christ's flesh, except he first adore it." (St. Thomas, Summa Theologiae, III q. 80 a. 6)

The church is doing here what it does so many other places, i.e. let's divorce people feel 'lesser' than non-divorced

You can blame Christ for that one: "What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder".

254 posted on 08/12/2004 3:45:53 PM PDT by gbcdoj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 246 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
But yet you are interpreting that a deadly 'wheat' wafer is the only way this little girl can receive first communion

I don't see anyone defending the Church on this tread interpreting anything that way. Again, receiving the consecrated wine alone would be a completely valid first communion but the girl's mother is refusing this option.

255 posted on 08/12/2004 3:47:46 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur

LOL You got me there Sinky, although I doubt that is the function anyone else had in mind for the rice.

I am having a difficult time finding the document you are refering to. The only 1994 Ratzinger document I can find on the Vatican website is in what I am guessing to be latin, which I am unable to read. Could you give me and english title or link to it?


256 posted on 08/12/2004 3:48:20 PM PDT by Flying Circus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 242 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

Well, the people HERE seem to be properly taught. They seem to know that if the girl receives the Blood, she gets everything she needs,and she need not endanger her life by eating gluten. So they ask: why doesn't she just take the Blood and not make a fuss? Her mother appears to be poorly chatechized.


257 posted on 08/12/2004 3:48:45 PM PDT by Lilllabettt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 252 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Rice could be used, if it were not consecrated and intincted in consecrated wine or mustum.

I don't think so, sinkspur. See the cite from St. Thomas I posted. Even if the host were intincted, some in the Church might still believe it to be consecrated and give it that reverence which is reserved for God alone.

258 posted on 08/12/2004 3:50:33 PM PDT by gbcdoj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 242 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat
bread, plain old bread...and it does not matter what its made from... ..it is in REMEMBRANCE of Christ.

Careful -- you're about to get into the argument about transubstantiation, consubstantiation, and so on. The folks in this article believe that the bread becomes the real flesh of Christ, so it's a pretty big deal to them.

As for me, I think an insistence on wheat (and not some other sort of bread) is indeed quite pharasaical.

259 posted on 08/12/2004 3:54:10 PM PDT by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: ninenot
Nice research.

Thanks ... just look at how this thread has grown all sorts of legs, when the answer is already published.

260 posted on 08/12/2004 3:54:49 PM PDT by NYer (When you have done something good, remember the words "without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 230 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 221-240241-260261-280 ... 521-538 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson