Posted on 08/12/2004 10:41:10 AM PDT by sidewalk
BRIELLE, N.J. -- An 8-year-old girl who suffers from a rare digestive disorder and cannot consume wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained none, violating Catholic doctrine. Now, Haley Waldman's mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition _ celiac sprue disease _ should not exclude her from participating in the sacrament, in which Roman Catholics eat consecrated wheat-based wafers to commemorate the last supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...
Legalists? Ha funny. So, when I drive home each night and stop at all red lights, do not rape anyone, do not rob anyone and obey traffic laws I am now a legalist. Rubbish.
All just laws come from Christ and we are to obey them.
There is NO argument to be made.
The "church" is the body of believers. It is not the Catholic church or the Protestant church. This is clearly written in the Bible.
I KNOW what Communion is HOWEVER it is NOT a requirement to be saved. Christ clarified that on the cross. He told the thief next to him, he would be with Him in paradise. Thief was NOT baptized, nor did he have communion. So unless Christ is a liar(unlikely) this should clarify that Communion is NOT a requirement for eternal life.
I KNOW what Communion is HOWEVER it is NOT a requirement to be saved. Christ clarified that on the cross. He told the thief next to him, he would be with Him in paradise. Thief was NOT baptized, nor did he have communion. So unless Christ is a liar(unlikely) this should clarify that Communion is NOT a requirement for eternal life.
I KNOW what Communion is HOWEVER it is NOT a requirement to be saved. Christ clarified that on the cross. He told the thief next to him, he would be with Him in paradise. Thief was NOT baptized, nor did he have communion. So unless Christ is a liar(unlikely) this should clarify that Communion is NOT a requirement for eternal life.
Um no. You, like the Pharisees, are spreading lies.
So you're conceeding that the physical act of baptism by water, though certainly an act of pious obedience, is not necessary for salvation? And by extension, are you saying the same for the Eucharist?
If one can't receive communion through no fault of their own is much different from someone knowing His one Church founded by Him exists and failing to accept it.
Under normal circumstances, baptism is required. Under crisis situations, like the good thief, baptism of desire is sufficient.
You, like the Pharisees, are spreading legalism and elitism, claiming to be the only ordained authority/priesthood of God, while ignoring His Scriptures in favor of human traditions. Can you please show me where Jesus ever appealed to a rabbinical tradition to nullify a plain teaching of the written Word?
It isn't legalist and elitist to say that the FORM of a sacrament is invalid. You don't know what you're talking about.
Me: Rituals do NOT save anyone.
YOu: Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the last supper?
Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the crucifixion?
Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the resurrection?
Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of making the mud paste to put on the blind man's eyes?
Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the baptism?
Then why did Jesus command us to go through all these rituals and say that we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven or have life in us if we do not?
He was and is God almighty, and could have just done all these things without rituals, BUT HE DIDN'T.
Then why did Jesus not just do it all YOUR way?
Why? Because He was trying to save us from lazy, wretched, human foolishness, and, in SOME CASES, it worked.
Me: The RITUALS Jesus performed or asked other to carry out do NOT save anyone. Jesus looks at your heart. If you don't know the answers to the questions you posed to me, you seriously need to speak to someone Biblically literate. The answers you seek tell me you really don't understand why Christ did what He did for us on the cross.
Do you think pedophile Priests are "saved" because they partake in Communion and were baptized? If so, then by golly we should all follow these rituals so we can be "saved". Have you read the Bible? Seen the hypocrisy shown through performing rituals where their heart was not in it? It's all over the Bible. Youre best bet is to read the Bible instead of letting others misguide you. I wouldn't trust mere fallible mortals with where I will stand in eternity.
Seriously, one more time RITUALS do NOT save anyone. It is what is in your heart that determines that.
Then baptism and taking Communion/the Eucharist is not truly a requirement of salvation by the strict definition of the word, but simply an outward act of obedience that reflects and inward partaking of Christ and baptism by the Holy Spirit. Which is all that the Protestants and Evangelicals on this forum have stated all along--we're not discouraging someone to be baptized or partake in the Lord's Supper by any means.
Umm, no. I refer you to the whole argument above on John 6.
"If one can't receive communion through no fault of their own is much different from someone knowing His one Church founded by Him exists and failing to accept it."
If someone is incapable of receiving Communion doesn't mean they are not "saved". If they are capable of receiving Communion they should but ny no means does this mean they are "saved". It is what is in the heart/mind of the individual that determines that. Rituals do NOT save anyone whether they partake of them or not.
Would you please go away! This is a family matter.
as a rare exception, non-fermented grape juice and specially processed wheat-based bread may be used
Then, if 'wheat-based' is a substitute, one can assume that there is a non-wheat primary content in the wafer used? If so, there should be no problem. Especially since there is 'allowed' substitution for grape-juice for the wine, then there should be whatever option possible made for someone who's life depends on not consuming wheat.
Someone said she can simply drink the wine (or juice) and that should be sufficient for this girls health problems.
"Are the Jehovah's Witnesses' your definition of "believer"? I believe they read the same Bible you do. Who, in your opinion, decides what makes a person a believer?"
What does a JW have to do with my statement?
Back on topic - the "church" is the body of believers. That is how the Bible defines the "church" and the Bible IS the Word of God. I believe God defines who believers are not mere fallible mortals of any stripe.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.