"More Catholic Than the Pope" — New Book Responds to Arguments Raised by Extreme Traditionalists

Envoy Encore Weblog ^ | 07-30-04 | Patrick Madrid

[Patrick Madrid]

Catholic canon lawyer Peter Vere and I have co-authored a new book critiquing the claims and controversies of extreme traditionalism that will come out in September, published by Our Sunday Visitor Publishing.

Written in a popular and accessible style, More Catholic Than the Pope provides a detailed analysis of and response to common arguments raised by extreme traditionalist Catholics (in particular, adherents of the Society of St. Pius X) against the Second Vatican Council, Pope John Paul II, the fact that the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre committed a schismatic act by illicitly ordaining four bishops in 1988, and more. Chapters include a history of the SSPX, a background on the controversy between the SSPX and the so-called "Conciliar Church," and answers to several standard canon-law and historical arguments often raised by extreme traditionalists.

Our hope is that, by God's grace, the evidence presented in this new 224-page book will inform, encourage, and strengthen Catholics who have been shaken or confused by the misguided arguments raised against the Catholic Church by some extreme traditionalists and, with regard to those who have adopted a schismatic mindset, that this book will help them recognize the errors of extreme traditionalist groups, help them to see why they should abandon those errors, and help them come home to the Catholic Church.

Additional details on More Catholic Than the Pope will be available soon at Envoy Encore weblog.

[NYer]

I have 2,000 years worth of saints to read instead.

And hopefully gain some wisdom from them too.

St. Charbel lived the life of a model monk in the monastery of St. Maro at Annaya (Gibail) for 15 years--singing office in choir and working in the monastic vineyards and olive orchards with strict obedience and personal self-denial.

[Land of the Irish]

You have made the accusation!

And I stand by it. And I don't care if you, or Pete Vere, think I'm in a state a mortal of sin.

[pascendi]

Everything you said here applies to anyone who falsely accuses another Catholic of being outside the Church when they may not be.

Think about that for a while.

Like I always say, a lot of NeoCatholics are just guilty of the very things they accuse traditional Catholics of.

[pascendi]

"St. Charbel lived the life of a model monk in the monastery of St. Maro at Annaya (Gibail) for 15 years--singing office in choir and working in the monastic vineyards and olive orchards with strict obedience and personal self-denial."

The pious thing won't work. I know my theology too well. I know the maronite rite quite well already, also.

However, I'm not aware of any point of disobedience.

[Land of the Irish]

It is not necessary to confess venial sins.

Pure BS.

[sinkspur]

You don't follow these threads, do you ksen?

If you did, you'd know what I meant.

[sinkspur]

Okie doke. I assumed the accusation against Vere was true. If not, that's great.

[pascendi]

According to the new theology, he's a least as holy as the pope, right?

Of course, nobody ever stopped to consider before using the phrase "holier than the pope", let alone putting it on the cover of a book, that none of these things are a question of holiness but a question of doctrine and it's proper liturgical expression.

[Land of the Irish]

I assumed the accusation against Vere was true.

Yet you went on to state, "His girlfriend had the abortion when the two of them were satanists, not a part of any Church."

[rogator]

"It is not necessary to confess venial sins."
Pure BS."

It has been my understanding that venial sins are forgiven at Mass.

Indulgentiam + absolutionem,
et remissionem peccatorum
nostrorum, tributat nobis
omnipotens et misericors
Dominus.

[pascendi]

You can take the word necessary in several senses.

[pascendi]

"And hopefully gain some wisdom from them too."

Let me get this straight. Christ died, rose, and ascended into heaven. He charged us with keeping the Faith until His return, and the Church has done that for 2,000 years.

But now in the year of our Lord 2004, because someone on the internet found out about St. Charbel, as if the first saint in Church history to have made mention of this unique idea called obedience, and this person didn't have a thorough understanding of the various types and applications of the word obedience, that because of said obedience the implication is that Catholics must learn that the synthesis of all heresies isn't really hurting the Church and that Catholics should turn a blind eye or capitulate maybe just a little to it, or take out after those who resist it, all in honor of this new thing called obedience?

It's brilliant, but I'll pass. It would be better to remain obedient.

[GirlShortstop]

8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

• False witness (not under oath) or perjury (under oath)
• Telling large or premeditated lies
• Serious gossip, detraction (revealing the faults of another without serious reason), or calumny (harming the reputation of another by falsities)
• Violation of a confidence without good reason
• Being an accomplice to another's grave sin

  Examination of Conscience

Thank you very much NYer for your posting.

...use this forum to air your own sins

Scandal falls under this, doesn't it?

[Max Combined]

So the bottom line for this nut of an archbishop, is:

Nut N Honey.

So much for the new and improved "Catholic" Church.

[Max Combined]

"His girlfriend had the abortion when the two of them were satanists"

When both sides of an issue agree on the basic facts, one can usually move on to another topic.

If you doubt the truthfulness of this assertion, perhaps you can query the man himself and get back to us with his answer.

[Max Combined]

"by the fact that some homosexuals and liberals forced their way into the Church."

Did they just force their way into the Church or did they force their way into control of the Church? What has been the result of the modernization of the Episcopalian/Anglican Church? How far behind the Episcopalians/Anglicans is the Catholic Church? The writing is on the wall. It is the same principle as slowly turning up the heat under a pot of water with a frog in it. Before the frog realizes what has happened his goose is cooked.

[sinkspur]

You, of all people, calling ME on the accusation!

Phoney!

[pascendi]

You post like this is all new information you were previously unaware of.

[Max Combined]

"In a court of law, any accusation must be substantiated."

In case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law. Unlike a court of law, this forum has no power to sentence a defendant to fines or to jail, so the standards are quite different.

We are exercising our right to express our opinion on this.

[Max Combined]

It's kind of old fashioned, isn't it?