from:
http://www.stnews.org/archives/2004_december/rlr_american_1204.html
American churches embrace purpose-driven movement
By Frederica Saylor
Cabbage Patch Kids. Livestrong bracelets. Low-carb diets. The Purpose-Driven Life?
With more than 20,000 churches in 52 countries joining hundreds of others, Rick Warren’s 40 Days of Purpose Campaign has spread like a cultural epidemic.
“We had no idea this thing was going to be as explosive as it was,” said the Rev. Marty Cutrone, national director of the campaign and a pastor at Saddleback Church in Orange County, Calif., where he and Warren launched the program.
Now in its sixth cycle, the campaign continues to grow exponentially, said Cutrone.
According to Barbara Becker Holstein, a positive psychologist practicing in Long Branch, N.J., and author of Recipes for Enchantment: The Secret Ingredient is You, the campaign has had this sort of impact because purpose is a life-essential element for which people constantly strive.
“It would be like asking, ‘Why do we need to eat?’ or, ‘Why are there males and females on earth?’” said Holstein. “It is so intertwined with what we have been given as human beings.” She explained that having purpose stabilizes us and is important for physical, mental and spiritual well-being.
The 40 Days of Purpose Campaign, which is based on Warren’s best-selling book, The Purpose-Driven Life, has three parts, said Cutrone. It focuses on the congregational journey, the small-group experience and the individual study of and reflection on Scripture, and can be tailored to individual congregations’ needs.
At the start of each campaign, churches watch a simulcast video featuring Warren, which helps members commit to the program. In the following six weeks, congregants read Warren’s book, discuss its teachings in small groups and host a ministry fair and a mission fair to put purpose into practice. At the end of the 40 days, the churches throw a celebration service, or “party for God,” said Cutrone.
“I believe all institutions — and churches are no exception — need catalyzing events that help you get back to your mission, to your purpose,” said the Rev. Ray Hammond, pastor of Bethel AME Church in Boston, whose congregation began the campaign in September. “They’re not the end-all in themselves, but part of the process of revitalizing institutions and people.”
Hammond said one of the most important effects the program has had so far is fellowship, both inside and outside the church.
“People are reaching out to others. They have invited employees, friends and family [to participate],” he said, adding that he has already noticed an increase in Sunday church attendance and small-group involvement, which has grown since the start of the campaign.
Holstein said it is no surprise that the group approach has been successful, because biologically, people need that support.
“We need the infusion,” she explained. “This is biology tied into the human species — maybe God put it in us. We need the stimulation of a group to feel we’re on track. So a group is an ideal mechanism when it’s used properly. It gives us the resiliency.”
Holstein added, “I think there is an inspiration that comes from the purity of well-handled religion. It awakens the spisrit that might be dormant.” She said the ultimate test of the campaign will be moving people into missions beyond the 40 days.
According to Cutrone, plans are in place for that challenge.
“We’ve created Day 41 resources, a post-campaign strategy harnessing the momentum that’s been captured during the 40 days that keeps the excitement going and helps churches train leaders,” he said. Those resources include 40 Days of Community, another six-week program that allows churches to select a ministry of choice to which they devote their efforts, and the Global Peace plan, which involves establishing churches, caring for the needy and educating the next generation around the world.
“The key line in the 40 Days of Community is that we are better together,” said Cutrone. “God has created us to do ministry to be in small groups, not be the lone-ranger Christian.” Saddleback Church, and 800 other churches that have completed the first phase, are taking part in the follow-up program.
The third program incorporates the belief that global peace can be reached in small groups.
“It just became really clear to Rick Warren that if we mobilize, percentage-wise, and inspire other churches, we [could reach] hundreds of thousands and millions around the world,” said Cutrone.
Having seen success within churches, Cutrone said the Purpose-Driven team is expanding the campaign into the corporate world. They already have instituted programs for collegiate sports teams and corporations like Coca-Cola, Wal-Mart and Ford. He added the most amazing “explosion” has occurred in prisons, where some facilities have reported as much as a 40 percent drop in intra-prison violent crime rates after participating in the 40 Days of Purpose Campaign.
“Organizationally, we have been running full-tilt,” said Cutrone. “But we don’t feel like we’ve missed a beat. There have been so many amazing success stories. God has been faithful and blessed this thing enormously.”
Frederica Saylor is health editor at Science & Theology News.
I LOVE TIM STAFFORD'S WRITINGS. Great to see his input on this. --Quix
From:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/tc/2003/006/4.16.html
Today's Christian, November/December 2003
The Shockingly Ordinary Purpose-Driven Life of Rick Warren
How a Krispy Kreme-loving, Hawaiian shirt-wearing Baptist preacher is changing the way Christians think.
By Ted Parks & Tim Stafford
Before his junior year in high school, future megachurch pastor Rick Warren knelt in a cabin at summer camp. "God, if you're really alive, I want to know you," he prayed. The response? Nothing he could hear or see. "No thunder, lightning," Warren says. But it didn't deter him.
Some three decades later, Warren writes nonfiction bestsellers and leads one of the largest evangelical congregations in America. His book The Purpose-Driven Life has hovered on The New York Times best-seller list for several months, selling more than 6 million copies so far. Saddleback Community Church, the congregation he pastors in the Los Angeles suburb of Lake Forest, California, shot from seven at its founding in 1980 to the more than 17,000 who currently crowd into six weekend services. He has counseled Hollywood celebrities, Wall Street power brokers, and has been a guest in the George W. Bush White House.
"It's not about you. If you want to know why you were placed on this planet, you must begin with God."
— from The Purpose-Driven Life
The secret of his preaching and publishing success? Warren sees himself as a communicator, as someone able to transmit the mysteries of the faith to ordinary 21st-century people. USA Today recently described him as a master marketer of a single message: "You are here for God." And Warren probably wouldn't quibble with that summation of his ministry.
"I am in essence a translator," he says from his comfortable office at Saddleback. "I love to challenge myself to teach theology to non-theological people, without telling them it's theology and without using theological terms." Indeed, this self-described "stealth evangelist" may be, in the words of Christianity Today, "the most influential pastor in America."
By next year, more than 8,500 churches and an estimated 2 million people will have signed on for one of Warren's "40 Days of Purpose" discipleship campaigns (see "What's Driving The Purpose-Driven Life?" below). In the program, people agree to read a chapter a day from Warren's latest book and take part in a systematic regimen of Bible study, worship, and outreach. For a local pastor that no one outside of church leadership circles had ever heard of before, Rick Warren is having quite an impact.
A Regular Guy
Just where did this guy come from? is the $64,000 question that has been on a lot of people's minds this year.
Warren, 49, doesn't appear on radio or TV. He rarely speaks outside his church, and avoids politics in both denomination and government. (Saddleback is Southern Baptist, but takes no part in denominational controversies.) Before The Purpose-Driven Life, Warren had published just a handful of books that were mainly of interest to other pastors. For instance, 1995's The Purpose-Driven Church contains chapters on such unexciting topics as sermon preparation and how to organize a class for people joining the church.
What people know about Saddleback Church is that it's seeker-sensitive, big, suburban, and Southern Californian, "which are the very things we care least about," says Warren. Indeed, nobody cares much about them. The seeker-sensitive approach is old stuff, and Saddleback started it years after Willow Creek Community Church, outside Chicago, did. Few congregations wish their pastor preached without tie and socks, as Warren does to match his casual community. And who wants to attend a behemoth? As Warren points out, "The only people who like big churches are pastors."
Warren preaches with the voice of a Regular Guy, making light of his partiality to Krispy Kreme donuts, stuttering a little, stepping on his own lines. In the pulpit or out of it, he drapes a Hawaiian shirt over a shapeless middle-aged body. His personal sense of style, he jokes, is clothes that don't itch. With the face of a friendly butcher, Warren is to preaching what John Madden is to football. You don't listen for oratorical skill—though he does have a great sense of comic timing. You listen because he doesn't seem all that different from you. Pastors who hear him have got to think, I can do that.
Those who hear and read Warren believe he makes his message not only clear, but also relevant. Paul Wilkes, author and program director for Pastoral Summit, a North Carolina-based organization dedicated to strengthening individual churches, says Warren is "understandable to people. There's a hunger in people's hearts he … has an insight into." He "really hits people where they live."
"I think he is one of the best teachers in the world," says Matt Moser, a church worker from Zurich, Switzerland, who was among the thousands of pastors and church leaders at a recent "Purpose-Driven Church" conference at Saddleback. Moser especially appreciated Warren's ability to connect with unbelievers.
In his blood
There's preaching in Warren's blood. One ancestor studied under the great 19th-century English evangelist Charles Spurgeon and came to America as a circuit-riding preacher, Warren says. And Warren's father was a minister. But the megachurch pastor made clear he never intended to follow in the steps of his preaching forebears. Growing up in small-town Redwood Valley, California, Warren liked the challenges and opportunities of leadership, serving as class president several years. His keenest interests were politics and government, he says. While a sophomore in high school, Warren won an appointment to serve as a page in the U.S. Senate. The summer before he was scheduled to go to Washington, Warren took a job as lifeguard at a Christian camp. Observing lives of faith he sincerely wanted to imitate, Warren says, he decided to have a talk with God. And despite the lack of proof anyone was listening, the future pastor's life began to change. No longer interested in politics, he turned down the chance to work in Washington. Instead, Warren started a Christian prayer group at school, then started getting invitations to speak in churches. He sidestepped, not marched, into ministry. "I just kind of veered in that direction," he says.
After graduating from California Baptist College, he left for Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. While in Texas, Warren wrote the country's 100 largest churches to find out what made them grow. He decided a key factor in developing healthy churches is continuity of leadership. The conclusions of his research mirrored his own longing. If he could only stay wherever he went, Warren promised, "God, I'll go any place in the world." And though he and his wife Kay wanted to go overseas, they felt the divine answer was no. So in January 1980, the couple spent their last $1,000 on a U-Haul and moved themselves, and their baby daughter, back to California, where they hosted the home Bible study that would eventually mushroom into Saddleback Church.
Doing it on purpose
Besides shepherding his own flock, the Saddleback leader reaches out to other ministers. On his Pastors.com website Warren offers an e-mail newsletter, "Rick Warren's Ministry Toolbox." His e-mail ministry tips reach some 83,000 church leaders weekly. "I love to pastor pastors," he says. And his "Purpose-Driven" church-growth principles are inspiring scores of congregations across the world to embrace Warren's baseball-diamond approach of Membership, Maturity, Ministry, and Mission (at the center of the diamond is Magnification, which stands for worship).
The basic idea is that every healthy church must balance these purposes, neglecting none. All ministry programs should be organized to serve one of the purposes, with a specific target audience in mind. And different departments must work together, since they expect to "hand off" members as they go around the bases. As Warren often says, "You don't get credit for people left on base!" That means it's not enough to baptize new believers or place them on the rolls. It's not even enough to get them to tithe or volunteer. Churches need to move members on to maturity, discipleship, service, and mission.
The Purpose-Driven Life has no doubt found a lot of its success among many readers from the business world who are looking for the latest word on leadership. But Warren's principles seem less a result of a business-saturated mind than a Baptist-saturated mind. Though he has dropped much of Southern Baptist culture, Warren's imperatives come straight from the heart of the Baptist way. He cares about the Bible. (It's a point of pride with him that Purpose-Driven Life cites over 1,000 verses of Scripture.) He cares about world missions, pouring money into making Purpose-Driven resources available in the Third World. And most of all he cares about soul-winning. "He lives, bleeds, sleeps, and eats evangelism," says his wife, Kay.
And at the end of the day, even with his newfound "superstar" status, Rick Warren insists his passion is the local church and his goal is not fame but "to build an army of the faithful."
"I'm still dealing with the day-to-day things that pastors go through," he says. "I'm not a bureaucrat; I'm a spiritual entrepreneur."
Adapted from Religion News Service (Aug. 11, 2003), © 2003 Ted Parks. With additional material by Tim Stafford from Christianity Today (Nov. 18, 2002), © Tim Stafford. All material used by permission.
What's Driving The Purpose-Driven Life?
With more than 4 million copies sold in less than a year, Rick Warren's The Purpose-Driven Life has landed atop virtually every bestseller list of note, including those from The New York Times, Publishers Weekly, and Amazon.com.
To say it has made an impact on the publishing world would be an understatement, but somewhat less obvious is the reason for its astounding sales success, particularly among mainstream book buyers. On the surface, it doesn't appear radically different from other Christian books on spiritual growth, but it is nevertheless selling at a phenomenal pace with no end in sight.
Lynn Garrett, the religion editor for industry trade journal Publishers Weekly, suggests the book's appeal is "a perfect storm" of factors. "People are searching for purpose, especially in the wake of 9/11. This book not only addresses that, but it does so in an extremely accessible format and an easy-to-read style," she says.
"Also, the publisher [Zondervan, a unit of HarperCollins] has done a very effective job of marketing the book to the masses by getting it into general market outlets like Wal-Mart and Sam's Club as well as churches and religious bookstores," Garrett adds.
The key to getting the book into churches has been a discipleship campaign called "40 Days of Purpose," which is coordinated with Warren's ministry at Saddleback Church. Incorporating a satellite simulcast highlighting Warren's teachings from the book, the campaign has reached thousands of churches and directly resulted in sales well into six figures.
Churches that have participated in the program have reported an average growth of 80 percent in Sunday school attendance and 22 percent growth in worship attendance and financial giving. Both large and small churches report benefiting from the program.
Christ United Methodist Church in Mobile, Alabama, a 3,000-member congregation, participated in the "40 Days of Purpose" campaign last fall, and it was such a success that the church launched 40 new small groups reaching more than 500 adults as a result.
"We are still reaping the benefits from the paradigm shift necessitated by the '40 Days of Purpose,'" says Kenna Sapp, minister of adult discipleship for the church, "not to mention the actual life change that has happened to so many people in their faith journey."
At the other end of the spectrum is a two-year-old church plant called Crossroads Community Church in Lombard, Illinois. The church has about 200 members today, but grew more than 50 percent as a result of its participation in the "40 Days of Purpose." What's more, the church's financial giving grew more than 30 percent after participating in the program.
"We didn't do it to grow, but as we focused on our purpose, the growth was a direct byproduct of our involvement," says founding pastor Scott Nichols. "In a word, the program expanded our vision. We were reminded that church is about more than counting 'nickels and noses.' It's about actively reaching our community with the Good News."
—By Sean Fowlds for Christian Reader
FROM:
http://www.assistnews.net/stories/s05030135.htm
ASSIST News Service (ANS) - PO Box 2126, Garden Grove, CA 92842-2126 USA
Visit our web site at: www.assistnews.net -- E-mail:
danjuma1@aol.com Saturday, March 26, 2005
'PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE' AUTHOR RICK WARREN TELLS LARRY KING "GOD USES ORDINARY PEOPLE"
By Michael Ireland
Chief Correspondent, ASSIST News Service
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA (ANS) -- Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren appeared in his first live prime time interview since hostage Ashley Smith read his bestseller, "The Purpose Driven Life" to the alleged Atlanta courthouse killing suspect, Brian Nichols, after which Nichols let her go and surrendered to police. (Pictured: Rick Warren addressing pastors at the recent Billy Graham crusade in Pasadena).
Just back from Africa, Warren has emerged as one of the most famous names in America. He was in "Time" magazine along with leading Evangelicals among America's 25 most influential people. Now, with the story of 'hostage-to-hero' Ashley Smith, her story becomes partially the story of Rick Warren.
Talk show host Larry King interviewed Warren in a CNN program that aired March 22, 2005. The following report was taken from a rush transcript of that interview.
King asked Warren: "You were in Africa when all this happened. How did you hear about it? "
"Well, that's right, Larry. I actually heard about it from you. I had been out in the bush all day. We'd been working with orphans that had been orphaned through the genocide in Rwanda, and also orphaned by AIDS. And after a pretty grueling day, we got back to the hotel, and I flipped on the TV and there you were talking about how 'The Purpose Driven Life' had been used by Ashley to convince Brian to turn himself in. And so, I actually heard about it through you.
"What was your first reaction?" King asked.
"Well, I was, of course, humbled by that. I was thrilled at it. I had mixed emotions in the fact that first I felt sorry for those who had already lost their lives and loved ones that were left behind. And I prayed for them and expressed my condolences for them, because I just wish the message had got there sooner, that maybe Brian wouldn't have taken four lives before he got the good news. But I was thrilled that Ashley was able to have the presence of mind to talk to him. And when he got the concept, it changed his life" Warren replied.
"Have you spoken to Ashley?" King asked>
"Oh, yes. I'm talking to her on a daily basis and basically just giving her pastoral encouragement, that's what -- praying with her, reading a scripture, helping to sort out what's happened to her. And -- these kind of things, I've helped a lot of people before, that they have a crisis and then, of course, after the crisis comes, the media deluge. And it can be pretty unsettling to everybody. And so, I'm just helping her behind the scenes."
Did Warren call Smith from Africa?
" No, I wasn't able to contact her because I was out of contact both by Internet and by phone most of the time I was there. I did send an E-mail to her and then we set up a meeting to talk. She was anxious to talk as soon as I got back into town and then we've been doing that."
Did Warren know Smith before this?
"No. No, I had never met her. I know one of her pastors who was in the church she attends, and it's a purpose driven church. That's -- they had been through, actually, the 40 days of Purpose Driven Program when this happened. And so, she had been watching me on videotape once a week in her small group, not just reading the book. I think she was going through it for the third time, so she was pretty well familiar with the material."
King said: "When she went public for the first time, Rick, she explained to reporters what led her to read from your book. Lets take a look at what she said."
In the video, Ashley Smith, is seen telling her story.
"I asked him (Nichols) if I could read. He said, what do you want to read? I said, well, I have a book in my room. So, I went and got it. I got my Bible. Then I got a book called 'The Purpose Driven Life.' I turned it to a chapter that I was on that day, which was chapter 33. And I started to read the first paragraph of it. After I read it, he said, stop, will you read it again? So, I read it again to him.
"He mentioned something about what you thought your purpose in life was, what were you -- what talents were you given? What gifts were you given to use? I asked him what he thought? And he said, I think that it's to talk to people and tell them, you know, about you."
King asked Warren if he would minister to Brian Nichols, if asked?
"I haven't had a chance to talk to Brian yet, but it is my desire to get in touch with him and kind of see where he is spiritually and you know, how we could help him too. You know, that chapter that she chose, Larry, as you know, the book is divided into 40 days. And she happened to just be on day 33, which is about being a servant. And she read that passage. And the bottom line is, when people understand that their life is not an accident, that they were made to last forever, that God put them here for a purpose. That there are accidental parents, but I don't believe there are any accidental children. There are illegitimate parents, but I don't believe there are any illegitimate children. If you're alive, there's a purpose for your life. As she began to talk about this and read the passage on serving, it just clicked with Brian. And actually, then she modeled it. She served him, by serving him breakfast…"
Warren said Nichols then helped Ashley Smith fix some curtains.
"Curtains -- exactly, that she needed fixed. And something keyed in there. I think part of it was that Ashley understands grace. You know, she has been real honest about her past. And she had some problems, she had some difficulties -- had some mistakes in her life. And you know, when you've experienced grace and you feel like you've been forgiven, you're a lot more forgiving of other people. You're a lot more gracious to others. And she just showed this guy kindness, and he responded to it."
King asked Warren: "How -- how is she doing? Is her mood uplifting? She's not doing any media, so you'll be a link for us. How is she doing? We're all so interested in her."
"Well, she's doing really good right now. And I think, there (are) just some people around who are protecting her, making sure she's not just overwhelmed. Obviously, this is the story of the week, and actually, the story of the month. And she wanted to keep her sanity. She's got -- she's a single mother. She's got a young child, Paige is 5-years-old. And I think she's doing really good. As, I said, I talked to her today, again, and asked her, I said, how are you doing? And she said, well, I feel like God used me. And I, of course, believed that.
"You know, this guy was acting in -- when he started killing people, when Brian Nichols started killing people -- when people lack hope, they do hopeless things. And I think this guy actually felt hopeless. And so, he was lashing out, not in a good way. Obviously, he took four lives and we're sorry for that.
"But what people are looking for is a reason for hope. And when Ashley explained to him, you know what, this is not what you're meant to do, this is not what you're meant to live for, he immediately resonated from it and actually called her -- said you're an angel sent from God. And the change was instant."
Could Brian Nichols still have, in his situation, a purpose driven life? King asked.
"Absolutely. Now, there's no doubt that the Bible teaches when someone commits a crime, that the government has the authority to punish people for it. And he may lose his life, he may get the death penalty. But before -- as long as he's alive here on earth, there will be a purpose for his life. And of course, that purpose now becomes greater -- and in fact, I think that's really what the message this week of Easter is, is that God can bring good out of bad.
"That he turns crucifixions into resurrections. That he takes the mess of our life, and when we give him all the pieces, he can -- God can put it together in a new way. And the message, I think there's two messages out of this story. One of them is, that God can use anybody. Ashley will tell you, she's just an ordinary person. She wasn't some saint. She wasn't some preacher or some theologian. God uses normal ordinary people in daily life. And if God only used perfect people, nothing would get done. Because none of us is perfect. We've all got our faults, mistakes in our backgrounds.
"And I think, that's the story - that God uses us in spite of ourselves, and in spite of weaknesses and faults. And I think the other thing is, that opportunities are all around us, but a lot of times we're just unaware of it. Everybody wants to serve God in a great way. But in that chapter, I talk about, why don't you just serve God in a little way and watch what he wants to do.
"And she, obviously, she just went out for a pack of cigarettes. And as she went out, I'm sure she didn't have any plan of being some kind of savior or super person. But she just went out for some cigarettes, and when she came back, the opportunity presented itself and she responded in love to this guy and he melted."
In another video clip, Ashley Smith says: "He (Nichols) said he thought that I was an angel sent from God. And that I was his sister and he was my brother in Christ. And that he was lost and God led him right to me."
King asked Warren if her fame (is) an opportunity, or can there be dangers in that?
"Well, that's a good question, Larry. I believe that the purpose of influence is to speak up for those who have no influence. And fame is not for our own benefit, or notoriety is not for our own benefit, it's for leverage to do good. And I think Ashley is definitely doing good with her life, I think she is an inspiration for a lot of people.
"You know, this was simply a young woman who was going about her daily life, and she showed courage. I'm sure she was scared to death when Brian took her captive and made her a hostage. But courage is doing the right thing in spite of your fear. And she, instead of seeing this guy as a monster, just thought, well, how can I -- how can I see him as a person? And as she began to meet his needs, he began to become more of a human being. And I think that's an example for all of us, that even the most monstrous person that -- I've discovered that hurt people hurt people. That when you're hurting inside, you tend to hurt other people. And clearly, he was doing that. He was lashing out against the world in a very dangerous way."
"It's got to make you feel very good and very proud, aren't you?" said King.
"Well, I'm humbled by the whole thing. I'm not surprised by it, actually, because I've received thousands and thousands of letters literally from all around the world of people's lives who have been changed when they discovered, hey, I'm here for a reason, I am here for a purpose. It has the power to change people's lives.
"It's not as dramatic as this one with Ashley and Brian. But I have heard these stories. And even when I was in Rwanda, I saw this taking place there, where an entire nation is kind of coming up out of the ashes. You know, they went through that genocide in '94, and the world turned its back on an entire nation, and yet I saw a nation learning to forgive, expressing reconciliation, rebuilding.
"And I asked them, what's the reason here? And they said it's God, it's Jesus Christ. These things have -- we've been learning that we have to forgive, because if we hold on to our hurt, it only make us miserable."
Larry King then asked: "You can, though, Rick, have a purpose-driven life and be an agnostic or an atheist, can't you? Still do good, still help others, still have purpose?"
"Absolutely, you can help other people. I believe that we were made for a purpose, and that purpose is really to know God and to serve God and to love God, and to serve other people by -- serve God by serving others. You know, you can't really serve God directly, Larry, not here on Earth. The only way you can serve God is by serving other people."
KING: Since you believe in God, if an agnostic or an atheist is doing good, God appreciates it, according to you, right?
WARREN: God wants us all to be loving to each other, there is no doubt about that. In fact, Jesus wouldn't have made any distinction between someone who was of a different background. The issue was, do they love him and do they have a purpose? Are they following his purpose? See, I believe that we were made by God and that we were made for God. And that until we understand that, life isn't going to make sense. Now, really when it comes to purpose, you've only got three alternatives. One of them is, you can just make up a purpose and say, this is going to be the purpose of my life. But really, all along, you kind of know, well, is that really what I'm here for?
"Another way is to just speculate about it, and one of the popular ways today is to say, look within. And if you look within, then you'll discover your purpose.
"Well, there's only one problem with that. It doesn't work. I've talked to a lot of people. I looked within. I didn't find my purpose. Since I didn't create me, I can't tell me what my purpose is. I have got to look to my creator. And of course, the premise behind 'The Purpose-Driven Life' is that you're not an accident. That you were formed by God for a unique reason here on Earth, and that gives life meaning and significance.
"We've talked about this before. A lot of people have success, but they don't have significance. And significance comes from knowing you're not an accident, knowing you matter to God and knowing how much he loves you, and then fulfilling that purpose."
KING: Interesting note, Amber Frey gave Scott Peterson your book in February of 2003. She wanted him to read it and exchange written observations about it. A copy of your book, 'The Purpose-Driven Life,' was in Scott Peterson's car the day he was arrested. Guess he didn't read it?
WARREN: I guess he didn't read it. When the book has sold as many copies as this book has, you're going to find it in all kinds of places. And every time I turn around, I am hearing another story about it showing up in a place like Scott Peterson's back seat.
Ashley Smith was then seen in another video clip saying: "After I started to read to him, and he saw -- I guess he saw my faith and what I really believed in. I told him I was a child of God and that I wanted to do God's will. I guess he began to want to. That's what I think."
King asked Warren: "What do you make of this whole Terri Schiavo matter? The courts have still kept the feeding tube in. The polls indicate the public supports the husband. Where do you stand in all this incredible matter?"
WARREN: Yes, you know, Larry, the first place -- any poll, you can make a poll say anything you want by the way you frame the question, you know that. I think if people know the real story about Terri -- they think that she's on life support. She's not. They think she's brain dead, she's not.
"This is a woman who is not dying, at least she wasn't, until they started starving her. She's in a vegetative state. That is not brain dead, and doctors will tell you person can live in a vegetative state 15, 20, 30 years. It's unlikely that she would come out of it, but a lot of people do, and it does happen.
"If I were in a vegetative state, I would hope the people that love me would keep feeding me with the possibility I might come back out of that state. She's not on life support. This is not a matter -- this is not a right to die issue, in my opinion. It is the fact that they were just feeding a person who is, right now, mentally handicapped, and I, personally, I fear the day, that if we start saying, well, you don't have a right to live if you are mentally handicapped or you're physically handicapped or emotionally handicapped, and you -- we'll just, you know, stop feeding you. This is starvation. It's not pulling artificial life support, it's saying, we're just not going to feed you anymore. To me, that is an atrocity worthy of Nazism."
KING: How about the law? Aren't we a nation of laws and don't we -- aren't we supposed to follow the courts?
WARREN: Of course, we're a nation of laws, but the good thing about America, is that laws reside in the people and people can change the laws. And that's the value of democracy. That's why I love this country, because if a law is wrong, it can be changed, it can be changed by our representatives.
"I think, unfortunately, Larry, this thing has become a political or ideological football and they're not thinking about the person. Terri is a real person, who smiles, who gives affection, who laughs and things like that. In fact, I was talking earlier today with the lead attorney, David Gibbs, for Terri's parents. He was telling me that, you know, she was responding today with laughing. Well, a person who's on life support doesn't laugh. She smiles. A person who is, you know, has lost brain wave activity doesn't smile.
"Barbara Weller just sent this and it said, 'just before I left the room, I leaned over Terri and I spoke right into her ear. I told her I was very sorry that I had not been able to stop the feeding tube from being taken out and I was sorry I had to leave her alone. But I reminded her Jesus would stay right by her side even when no one else was there with her. When I mentioned Jesus name, Terri laughed out loud, she became very agitated and began loudly trying to speak to me again. And as Terri continued to laugh and try to speak, I quietly prayed in her ear and then I left the room. Terri is alone now, and as I write this, last visit narrative, it's 5:00 in the morning of March 19. Terri has been without food and water for nearly 17 hours, and I'm sure she's beginning to at least feel thirsty, if not hungry, and I'm left to wonder how many other people care.'
"That's not the story of somebody who's lost all brain wave activity and clearly is just, you know, an organism there. There's still a person there and they're starving her."
King then asked Warren about Pat Boone's grandson, Ryan, "(who) as you know, had that terrible trauma. How is Ryan doing?"
WARREN: Well, that's good. Thanks for asking.
"There's a good parallel to the Terri Schiavo case, and that is, Ryan, because of the brain damage, you would have thought that this guy was just going to be in a vegetative state the rest of his life. But I talked to Mike and to Lindy actually earlier today, and a couple of developments have happened just in the last two weeks. One of them is, Ryan has started speaking in entire sentences. Now, that's first, and he has not done that since his accident several years ago. And the second thing is, Lindy walked into the room the other day and he opened his arms wide to reach out to her. Now, that is a first, too, because of his left arm has been pretty much paralyzed and uncontrollable.
"And, so, those two things give everybody here in our church and in their family hope. But, again, it's a slow process. What if somebody had said, well, you know what, he's not going to recover from this, let's not feed him, and he wouldn't be making the progress he's making today."
KING: Rick, why do bad things happen to good people?
WARREN: Well, Larry, it's because we live in a broken world. This is not (a) perfect world. This is not heaven and that's why we're depraved. 'Thy will be done on earth as it is heaven.' Why? Because in heaven, everything's done perfectly. Things are not done perfectly on this earth.
"God gave us a freedom to choose. As a result of choices, we make mistakes, we blow it -- and whenever I make mistakes, whenever I sin, it always causes damage and causes hurt.
"The Bible teaches that since sin entered the world, way back with the very first human beings, we have lived in an imperfect, broken planet, and that causes hurricanes and tornadoes, and all kinds of things. This is not a perfect planet. So, we should not be surprised that it's not paradise. And also, life is not fair. In fact, the Bible says life is not fair. It's just not fair."
KING: How do you like -- I understand that you're on greeting cards now -- quotes from "The Purpose-Driven Life" is in the select group of greetings card that bookstores are putting it in the front. Are you now a commodity?
WARREN: Well, I hope not. I tell you this. Marketing is when you create a message in order to push a product, but what I'm doing is the exact opposite. I'm just looking for products to share a message, because I believe that the message is life-changing -- and by the way, I didn't come up with that distinction, that was said about me in the New York Times, that I'm creating ways to simply share the message, that God loves you, he has a plan and purpose for your life, Jesus Christ died for you, there is a reason for the things that happen in your life. And even the bad things, God can bring good out of bad.
"That's what Easter's all about, and -- the message isn't really anything new, Larry. It's been taught for 2,000 years in churches. If somebody wants to hear it, they don't have to read my book, just go to church on Easter and hear it."
Another video clip showed Ashley Smith saying: "Throughout my time with Mr. Nichols, I continued to rely on my faith in God. God has helped me through tough times before, and he'll help me now."
Before taking calls from the viewing public, King commented: "This Sunday, at Easter service, Rick Warren will be celebrating 25 years at the Saddleback Church. He first conducted his first service there 25 years ago Easter Sunday. Congratulations.
WARREN: Thank you, Larry. And actually, I'm going to be doing the message on 'The Purpose-Driven Life.' I just thought that would be a good message, since the church was built on that. We're going to repeat that message on Easter Sunday.
** This article was prepared from a rush transcript of the March 22, 2005 Larry King Live program on CNN. It has been edited for this article and is not meant to be a complete record of that interview. Every effort has been made to retain the accuracy of that conversation.