Posted on 07/26/2004 1:57:27 PM PDT by Lasher
Would like to know if there are any other Christians out there that have not swallowed Rick Warren's version of the Gospel. I left my "seeker-friendly" Church after much prayer and ponder, and it took several months to make the split. I still must speak with my former pastor about this, so until I do, I will not name my former Church. I have noticed that most who follow the "Purpose Driven" material are emotionally attached to it, much like true Christians are emotionally tied to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Imagine that! Quix hasn't made a successful argument? Wow! Who woulda thunk!
ha! ;-)
I don't see nuthin in 356....
Spirit must've taken over.
Oh, come now, don't you know it's the REST of us that are liars and owe Rick Warren a written apology? (cough cough cough...)
Or... maybe an out-of-time UFO abduction? Your got interrupted for a Holy Spirit-breathed vision? You had an out of body experience? Just some possibilities.
uhh... well... let's see here... contrast this with The Message which Rick Warren cites to prove his points:
Deceived on Purpose: The New Age Implications of the Purpose Driven Life
"For everything, absolutely everything, above and below, visible and invisible, …everything got started in him and finds its purpose in him."2The King James translates Colossians 1:16 as follows: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
It wasn’t Peterson’s use of the phrase “got started” instead of “created,” or even the word “purpose,” that jumped out at me, as much as his use of the phrase “above and below” instead of “heaven and earth.” When I was in the New Age, it was well understood that the words “above and below” had metaphysical/New Age connotations and were routinely substituted for “heaven and earth.” In fact, the term “as above, so below” was a commonly accepted New Age phrase.
In reading through The Message, I discovered that Peterson had actually inserted the entire phrase “as above, so below” into his paraphrase of the Lord’s Prayer. I compared Peterson’s version of the Lord’s Prayer with the King James Version of that same prayer.
The Message: "Our Father in heaven, Reveal who you are. Set the world right; Do what’s best— as above, so below. Keep us alive with three square meals. Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others. Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil. You’re in charge! You can do anything you want! You’re ablaze in beauty! Yes. Yes. Yes."3 [Emphasis added]
Peterson had deliberately substituted “as above, so below” in place of “in earth, as it is in heaven.”
In Colossians 1:16, Peterson again chose to use the terms “above” and “below” instead of the commonly accepted “heaven” and “earth” found in most Bible translations. The “above” and “below” in Colossians 1:16 is an obvious derivative form of the “as above, so below” he had used previously in his paraphrase of the Lord’s Prayer. This derivative form of the more complete phrase “as above, so below” is also common to the New Age. The fact that this whole “above” and “below” issue was presenting itself on the first page of the first chapter of Rick Warren’s book was unsettling. Was I reading too much into this? Was there some other reasonable explanation for Eugene Peterson’s use of the term “as above, so below” in the Lord’s Prayer and its derivative form in Colossians 1:16?
King James Bible: "Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen." [Emphasis added]
I tend to agree, if you're speaking time-wise. The prostitute is more likely to feel the physical effects of her sins, therefore realizing her lostness, and repenting. NO guarantees. as far as I recall he said she 'may very well be closer.'
I know I'm backtracking.
http://www.eugenewoodbury.com/essay110.htm(emphasis added)
"A cold, self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute."To which he adds, "Of course, it is better to be neither."
In his chapter "nice people or new men" where he spoke of it being easier for the camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven. He was thinking about how rich doesn't always mean physically rich. I think that ties in here.
Rick Warren is filling his church with "nice people" and not "new men." That's his message in a nutshell. Stroke their egos, get them in the door, and then do a classic "Bait and Switch" and see if they'll bite on the message when we tell them Jesus said
Luke 14:25-35 (New American Standard Bible) (emphasis added)
25Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,26"(O)If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
27"Whoever does not carry his own cross [e.g. willing to be publicly seen and ridiculed like a condemned criminal with a death sentence] and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28"For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? [we should give them ALL the information so that they can make an INFORMED DECISION - Rick Warren's tactics are taken right out of Planned Parenthood. What fellowship has light with darkness?]
29"Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
31"Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
32"Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
33"So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
[and frankly, this is what Warren's church and all who follow his teachings are in danger of fulfilling:]
34"Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned?
35"It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
There are no patterns. I have seen it all across denominations. Rick Warren has written it to appeal to all denominations, even cults. It's those who are primarily concerned with the church's PRIMARY "PURPOSE" of preaching the Word in all its fullness and 'handling accurately the word of Truth' that are concerned.
I found a good piece of satire here and notice that my church's emblem (www.covchurch.org) is on the cover! What are the odds!
I was raised LCA, they got really liberal and changed to the ELCA, we moved over the AFLC (Association of Free Lutheran Congregations) and now up until a few days ago when my husband was summarily removed from his position of music director because of my inability to support the 'ministries of the church and denomination', we were covenant church members. They BAITED AND SWITCHED us too. Which means they broke their part of the 'membership vow' first.
I have heard from Presbyterians, Assemblies of God, Lutheran, nondenominational, and Catholic who really have big problems with this movement. (it's basically a pretentious new shoot of the "Church Growth Movement").
But them regular old prostitutes, and sleeping with people casually, that's ok I guess...
But Gays don't do that, so that means it's A-OK!
That makes it too easy for him to be disproven, silly!
;-)
Are you? Generally when you look them up the verses are included. So why were they left out when you posted them?
It doesn't tell us what we've done wrong. Sheesh, those loving homosexuals haven't 'used and abused' anyone.... so they'll be clean before the judgement seat. (cough cough cough)
Careful, you'll create a monster. Oh wait, that's already been done.
try any of the prophets.
Jeremiah 23:9-40
Concerning the prophets:
My heart is broken within me;
all my bones tremble.
I am like a drunken man,
like a man overcome by wine,
because of the LORD
and his holy words.
The land is full of adulterers;
because of the curse the land lies parched
and the pastures in the desert are withered.
The prophets follow an evil course
and use their power unjustly.
"Both prophet and priest are godless;
even in my temple I find their wickedness,"
declares the LORD .
"Therefore their path will become slippery;
they will be banished to darkness
and there they will fall.
I will bring disaster on them
in the year they are punished,"
declares the LORD .
"Among the prophets of Samaria
I saw this repulsive thing:
They prophesied by Baal
and led my people Israel astray.
And among the prophets of Jerusalem
I have seen something horrible:
They commit adultery and live a lie.
They strengthen the hands of evildoers,
so that no one turns from his wickedness.
They are all like Sodom to me;
the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah."
Therefore, this is what the LORD Almighty says concerning the prophets:
"I will make them eat bitter food
and drink poisoned water,
"I will make them eat bitter food and drink poisoned water,
because from the prophets of Jerusalem
ungodliness has spread throughout the land."
This is what the LORD Almighty says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds,
not from the mouth of the LORD .
They keep saying to those who despise me,
'The LORD says: You will have peace.'
And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts
they say, 'No harm will come to you.'
But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD
to see or to hear his word?
Who has listened and heard his word?
See, the storm of the LORD
will burst out in wrath,
a whirlwind swirling down
on the heads of the wicked.
The anger of the LORD will not turn back
until he fully accomplishes
the purposes of his heart.
In days to come
you will understand it clearly.
I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.
"Am I only a God nearby,"
declares the LORD ,
"and not a God far away?
Can anyone hide in secret places
so that I cannot see him?"
declares the LORD .
"Do not I fill heaven and earth?"
declares the LORD .
I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!' How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their fathers forgot my name through Baal worship. Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the LORD . "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD , "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?
"Therefore," declares the LORD , "I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. Yes," declares the LORD , "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The LORD declares.' Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," declares the LORD . "They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least," declares the LORD .
False Oracles and False Prophets "When these people, or a prophet or a priest, ask you, 'What is the oracle of the LORD ?' say to them, 'What oracle? I will forsake you, declares the LORD .' If a prophet or a priest or anyone else claims, 'This is the oracle of the LORD ,' I will punish that man and his household. This is what each of you keeps on saying to his friend or relative: 'What is the LORD's answer?' or 'What has the LORD spoken?' But you must not mention 'the oracle of the LORD ' again, because every man's own word becomes his oracle and so you distort the words of the living God, the LORD Almighty, our God. This is what you keep saying to a prophet: 'What is the LORD's answer to you?' or 'What has the LORD spoken?' Although you claim, 'This is the oracle of the LORD ,' this is what the LORD says: You used the words, 'This is the oracle of the LORD ,' even though I told you that you must not claim, 'This is the oracle of the LORD .' Therefore, (pay attention, Quix) I will surely forget you and cast you out of my presence along with the city I gave to you and your fathers. I will bring upon you everlasting disgrace-everlasting shame that will not be forgotten."
So is this guy: enjoy - I thought you could all use a laugh from another 'fad' leader.
And hey, he's even got the "ANOINTING" WOOHOO!! Gimme them Holy Spirit goosebumps man...
So the Holy Ghost is an infection? Maybe you should see a doctor about that.
May wanna ping your "Holy spirit visions" list, Quix, they really need to hear this 'quality' vision from a good upright popular healer.
Rick Warren in PDL:
The best use of life is love.
The best expression of love is time.
The best time to love is now.
Is Jesus Really God?
Rick Warren Answers Your Questions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is Jesus really God?
~ Is Jesus really God? Well when you think about it you only have three options as to who Jesus Christ was. You see, Jesus claimed to be God. He said things like, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me." He claimed to be God many, many times. Now, that means either:
(a) He is who he says He was
(b) He was the biggest liar in history or
(c) He was crazy, He was a lunatic on the order of the man who calls himself a fried egg.
You see, you can't just say Jesus was a good man. I've had many friends who said, "Oh, I believe Jesus was a good man." Well He couldn't have been a good man and said those things He said. For instance, if I said to you, "I'm Rick Warren and I'm a good teacher and a good husband." You might say, "Okay, I buy that." But if I said to you, "I'm Rick Warren and I'm God and I'm the only way to heaven." Well, you would have to make a decision. You couldn't say I was a good person because a good person wouldn't say that. You'd either say, "He is who he says he was, or he's a liar or he's crazy."
Now Jesus didn't just expect us to believe Him and take Him at His word. He said, "I'm going to prove the claim that I am God." He said, "I'm going to let people kill me on a cross, then let them bury me. I'll be dead for three days and then I'll come back to life." And, of course, that was the event that changed history. The resurrection of Jesus Christ. Every person since then refers to Jesus Christ, whether they believe in Him or not, every time you right a date, A.D. or B.C., what's the reference point? Jesus Christ. Because it was the event that split history when Jesus proved that He was who He said He was, He is God.
Via:
http://www.secretsofsuccess.com/questions/
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