Posted on 07/24/2004 10:26:32 AM PDT by CatherineSiena
It would have been better to wait a week to post this article.
New Oxford Review's generous permission for republication states, in part, "As for posting material on the Internet, permission is hereby granted only to private individuals to post only one item from each issue, and that posting may occur no earlier than one month after the date of issue." [italics in original]
Since this was from the July/August 2004 issue, it would have been better to wait until August 1 to post.
As well, when posting items from NOR, they have requested that the following be added, "Reprinted with permission from New Oxford Review, 1069 Kains Ave, Berkeley CA 94706, USA."
sitetest
"His Eminence told me the following: "Knowing that his death was close, John XXIII called me and told me: `Silvio, Silvio; my pontificate has been a failure. All the things I wanted to accomplish have not been done; what I did not want to take place is being realized.""
The fact that John XXIII recognized that his pontificate had been a failure didn't prevent the liberals from rushing to have him beatified.
Here are some related articles on this topic:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a006bIncorruptPopeht.htm
http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a006ht.htm
In a similar vein, I doubt Pope John Paul 2's recent questions about the effectiveness of his own pontificate will delay his beatification either.
The holy father's infallibility doesn't extend to his every action as some people seem to believe. Catholics are at liberty to question the prudence of some of his innovations e.g. ecumania, and are not required to indulge in interfaith worship - even if the holy father himself does.
We aren't required to kiss the koran either.
Twenty-two years after JPII's death, methinks Oddi was engaging in a bit of 20/20 hindsight.
A Woodward-Casey moment, perhaps.
"Twenty-two years after JPII's death, methinks Oddi was engaging in a bit of 20/20 hindsight."
As far as I know JP2 isn't dead yet.
Are you sure you're not thinking of Kerry's Pope Pius XXIII?
I think Oddi made his "recollection" out of whole cloth.
That's a despicable thing to say.
"I meant John XXIII.
I think Oddi made his "recollection" out of whole cloth."
Ah yes, Sinkspur accuses the good Cardinal, of Happy Memory, whom I am certain Sinky remember as one of the signees of the "Ottaviani Intervention" lied, apparently with no proof whatsoever.
What a magnanimous, loving, charitable heart this post-Vatican II church has produced. Sinky says the good Cardinal lied in a public forum with no evidence whatsoever.
Slander or detraction, anyone?
Let's just say that the circumstances are odd. Even you would have to admit that.
The Ottaviani intervention, which Ottaviani later renounced?
Oh, so you are believing that line of thinking, esp. in light of the fact that a modernist prelate got him to sign a document while misrepresenting it to him, late in his life when he was blind. Oh yes. I have read that version of events. Either way, it doesn't seem to change the theological insights made by the document itself. You probably also believe that Eucharistic Prayer No. II, attributed to Hypolytus, an anti-Pope, is actually the oldest Eucharistic prayer. Man, the modernist propaganda is spread far and wide.
By the way, I was talking about Oddi. You are obfuscating. You caused detraction on the good name of a dead cardinal. That was the gist of my message. Did Oddi retract on this document as well? You accused him of lying. What is your proof?
By the way, pretty fair, accurate and balanced article by Alice von Hildebrand, huh?
"Let's just say that the circumstances are odd. Even you would have to admit that."
Not any moreso than the fact that Jean Guitton, Pope Paul's good friend and a well-recognized philosopher, has related years after Pope Paul's death that his intentions were specifically make the Mass like a Calvinistic service as well as a theological treatise presented to the Pope Paul VI Institute in Rome with allegations of modernism (by Jean Guitton and prominent, recognized Roman theologians) within the documents of Vatican II itself. Not odd at all. Just shows how history eventually brings to light what was clouded years before.
The Murky waters of Vatican II. What a concept.
Your last post to me is not clear. Whose intention was it to make the Mass a Calvinistic service?
By a mile.
Besides, I discount every single supposed deathbed statement, especially when it involves a Cardinal who opposed Vatican II using that deathbed statement to justify his POV.
Well, these two sentences wrap it up nicely.
Go get 'em Alice!
Pope Paul VI's intention according to his good friend the philosopher Jean Guitton.
Some friend.
I don't believe Guitton, either.
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