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Liberalism in the Church ("Goodbye, Good Men" reviewed by Karl Maurer)
Amazon.com ^ | 09 August 2002 | Karl Maurer

Posted on 06/27/2004 9:27:55 PM PDT by MegaSilver

After spending over two years interviewing ex-seminarians and ordained priests about the homosexual subculture dominating Catholic seminaries in the United States, Michael Rose could not have picked a better time to release Goodbye, Good Men (Regnery Publishing, 2002).

Some may say his timing is providential. Whatever you call it, this book is a "must-read" for Catholics who want the real story of how homosexual predators have become so notorious in the Catholic clergy and how liberal Catholicism brought corruption into the Catholic Church.

Trained as an architect, Rose gained a reputation as a thorough and insightful author of several successful books dealing with the deplorable state of modernist Catholic Church architecture. His new book on the priesthood is a shocking documentation of the homosexual infiltration of the American Catholic hierarchy, and accurately identifies widespread dissent from core Catholic teaching by the Catholic clergy in the seminaries as the root of the so-called vocation crisis.

Ironically, the Catholic media have been pretty rough on Rose. Critics have faulted him for the use of fictitious names; they have nit-picked petty details, and accused him of bad journalism. While many of Rose's sources have chosen to remain anonymous to protect themselves from retaliation, the consistency of the testimony, coupled with the sad stories of men who go by their real names, results in a highly credible and accurate account of the situation. One wonders whether the Catholic media's negative responses are an effort to save face because they remained silent while they were aware of the homosexual corruption in the seminaries.

Rose documents the bizarre exams administered by admitted anti-Catholic psychologists, the feminist nuns in charge of diocesan recruitment programs, and the openly homosexual formation advisors and faculty at the seminaries, all of whom systematically identified orthodox, truly Catholic young men and drove them away from the priesthood. Catholics will find the seminarians' stories -- Rose documents dozens of them occurring all over the country -- to be infuriating in light of the growing shortage of priests in America.

Some orthodox men left the seminary of their own accord after suffering sexual harassment by homosexual faculty and students. Others, who admitted to being against homosexuality or women priests, were drummed out as being "too rigid", for having a "lack of openness to new ideas", or for being "unaccepting of others as they are", often after they had completed years of study and sacrifice.

Those who survived the initial weeding out process often did so by posing as liberals. Having survived the first cut, the orthodox seminary student was then subjected to mandatory classes that included homoerotic films, pornography, heterodoxy in theology, and in some cases, outright heresy. Rose documents the case of one student who actually sued a seminary for falsely advertising they were Catholic, when the theology classes were openly hostile to well established Catholic teachings. To avoid the lawsuit, the heterodox theology professor involved was dismissed.

Because most seminaries continue to be overrun by dissenters and homosexuals, particularly in the area of formation and recruitment, it should come as no surprise that finding "straight" males willing to endure years of being cloistered in such an environment is nearly impossible. Rose provides a mountain of evidence that the shortage of priests has been effectively self-imposed by a liberal, feminist, and disproportionately homosexual clique dominating church administration.

My only criticism of Rose's outstanding book is that he fails to acknowledge any culpability or complicity on the part of Rome for the debacle in the church. The mess in the seminaries didn't just happen unnoticed or overnight. Since Vatican II, complaints to Rome about homosexual priests and bishops, sexually perverse seminaries, heterodox or heretical clerics, and the scandal of liturgical and sacramental abuses have been virtually ignored. In my own experience over the last 5 years, none of my letters regarding abuses in the church addressed to Rome or the Papal Nuncio have been acknowledged. I know too many other concerned Catholics who have had the identical experience, from Rochester, New York, to Oakland, California. When the Vatican finally did respond to the decades of complaints of rampant and unchecked homosexuality in U.S. seminaries, the process of investigation and the outcomes were highly suspect.

Rose identifies the fact that so-called Vatican investigations of the American seminaries during the 1980's (the Marshall report) were conducted by American Catholic Church insiders, who were treated to 'Potemkin village' tours of seminaries, and submitted their largely misleading, milk toast reports back to Rome. He quotes Notre Dame Professor Ralph McInerny, "Here indeed was a failure, and by churchmen, who had to make a determined effort not to acquaint themselves with the facts they were supposed to be investigating". To make matters worse, the homosexual infiltration of the Catholic Church does not stop in America. Veteran Catholic commentators have indicated a distinct possibility that there were highly influential homosexuals in Rome who helped to suppress the real story.

Part of the problem lies in the re-organized conciliar Catholic Church, in which the Vatican has effectively ceded away much of its authority to administer, regulate and discipline to regional councils like the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. These conferences are often part of the process of recommending candidates to the Vatican when episcopal vacancies occur. Typically, the Vatican accepts these recommendations, trusting that local prelates are in a better position to find "the right man for the job". But this system is also open to abuse, and abused it has been.

Rose stops short of saying so, but I doubt he would object if the Vatican began to assert itself in a more authoritative way regarding open dissent and disobedience by American clerics. In the absence of such discipline, the Catholic laity are left with the obvious impression that the refusal to accept certain Catholic doctrines is acceptable behavior. If the local priests and bishops can dissent from Church teachings and get away with it, what incentives are there for the laity to abide by the Catholic doctrines they object to?

Rose concludes with an upbeat assessment of how orthodox seminaries are succeeding in attracting vocations, and producing good priests. The crisis having reached a high water mark, Rose speculates things are turning around; good priests will emerge in greater numbers and the dissenting sub-culture in the Church will become extinct. It's true that seminaries like Mundelein, Illinois are not as bad as they were before, but there's a long road ahead for many seminaries before they begin to look Catholic inside and out.

Though the seminaries may be improving, the broader problem is the sorry state of the Catholic population in America. The most tragic consequence of dissent and this scandal has been has been the declining influence of Catholicism in the lives of American Catholics over the past 40 years. Mass attendance is now down to 20% of registered parishioners, and churches are being shuttered for lack of funds and parishioners; the sacrament of Penance is ignored, and not for lack of sinning; Catholic divorce and abortion rates are at the same levels as the general population. "Goodbye, Good Catholic Parents", is my suggestion for a Rose follow-up to his well timed, and much needed, "Goodbye, Good Men", which will hopefully spark reform now that it has caught the attention of the nation.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: liberalchristianity; liberals; michaelsrose
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To: MegaSilver
Hey! I wrote a review on Amazon for GB,GM too. Doesn't my review get a separate thread?

At the very least, everyone with an Amazon account should go there and give each 5 star review a "helpful" vote...

:-)
61 posted on 07/02/2004 10:43:54 AM PDT by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment, NOW!)
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To: sinkspur
Rose's book was generally good, but he made many mistakes, and refused to correct them when confronted. Instead, he threatened one priest with a lawsuit. He also, pointedly, never talked to one single seminary rector, using as his excuse "well, it would have been pointless." Let's hope he has more integrity in the pages of his next book.

Have you stopped calling him a liar? Funny, you bash Michael Rose as a man with no integrity, yet you defend Bishop Hubbard to the hilt.

You are a strange bird.
62 posted on 07/02/2004 10:46:04 AM PDT by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment, NOW!)
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To: sinkspur
Integrity.

A subject you know little about, I fear.

He accused seminary authorities of laxities in admissions policies. Should he not allow them to explain themselves, or justify themselves?

If I remember correctly, according to Rose, he did contact many of them, but none or not many would speak to him on the record.

But the fact that you would attack Rose is not surprising. You were attacking him as a liar before you even read the book.
63 posted on 07/02/2004 10:49:08 AM PDT by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment, NOW!)
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To: sinkspur
Is filing a lawsuit against Fr. Rob Johansen for disagreeing with some of his book, the actions of a man of integrity?

It is if the individual in question is slandering you and refuses to desist...
64 posted on 07/02/2004 10:50:27 AM PDT by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment, NOW!)
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To: Antoninus
If I remember correctly, according to Rose, he did contact many of them, but none or not many would speak to him on the record.

Not true. He contacted no seminary rector; he admitted it.

I never called Rose a "liar."

Why would a Catholic author silence a priest-critic by threatening to sue his bishop?

65 posted on 07/02/2004 10:51:17 AM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: Antoninus
It is if the individual in question is slandering you and refuses to desist...

Rose would not respond to requests from Johanssen to answer his questions. Instead, he threatened his bishop with a lawsuit.

66 posted on 07/02/2004 10:52:24 AM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: sinkspur
He was not refused. The rector of Louvain took him to task over some of the statements made by the lone seminarian he interviewed. No less than the National Catholic Register sided with the rector of Louvain against Rose.

And New Oxford Review blasted the Register for falling for the rector's BS. There was a devastating follow-up in NOR by Michael Rose himself which effectively demolished the claims made by the rector.

As far as I'm concerned, Goodbye, Good Men is a litmus test for where people fall on the deconstruction of the Catholic Church. A lot of crypto-orthodox types were exposed by their desire to savage the book.
67 posted on 07/02/2004 10:55:05 AM PDT by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment, NOW!)
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To: sinkspur
I never called Rose a "liar."

Sorry, you did. If you want, I'll go dredge up the post.

Why would a Catholic author silence a priest-critic by threatening to sue his bishop?

Are you saying that a priest has a right to slander someone? And of course, there's always the chance that this particular priest was acting under orders or at least tacit approval....
68 posted on 07/02/2004 11:00:49 AM PDT by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment, NOW!)
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To: Antoninus
Are you saying that a priest has a right to slander someone?

He didn't slander. He took issue with some of Rose's facts, then asked Rose to respond. Rose did, with a threatened lawsuit.

And of course, there's always the chance that this particular priest was acting under orders or at least tacit approval

Oh. So smearing someone is OK, but slander is not?

BTW, Ninenot notes that the rector of Louvain who questioned Rose has just been hired by Abp. Dolan of Milwaukee in his diocese.

69 posted on 07/02/2004 11:19:01 AM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: sinkspur
BTW, Ninenot notes that the rector of Louvain who questioned Rose has just been hired by Abp. Dolan of Milwaukee in his diocese.

That doesn't surprise me at all.

70 posted on 07/02/2004 11:22:28 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: broadsword
I don't even have to scroll down to see who will, doubtlessly, jump to this thread to defend the gentle special bishops, priests and deacons of the lavender mafia.

"Lavender mafia"??

LOL! Great one! I'm going to start using that.

71 posted on 07/02/2004 11:46:08 AM PDT by MegaSilver
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To: Pyro7480
That doesn't surprise me at all.

It doesn't surprise me either, as Dolan is a straight shooter, and the Louvain rector acquitted himself rather well in a rebuttal to Rose.

72 posted on 07/02/2004 12:45:20 PM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: sinkspur

What CONCLUSION do you perceive Rose to have made?


73 posted on 07/02/2004 6:56:57 PM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: narses
What CONCLUSION do you perceive Rose to have made?

Seminaries are loaded with gays.

The truth is, as Rose has to admit in his final chapter, the seminaries are largely cleaned up after the early 90s.

His book is about a phenomenon that occurred in the 70s and 80s.

74 posted on 07/02/2004 7:30:53 PM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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