Musings on the person and ministry of the Holy Spirit

Again, we differ on the Word of God. You see the “word of God” as the written Scriptures. As I explained in post 21, I know the Word of God personally. He is alive from the beginning to the end; He is Jesus Christ. He indwells in the person of the Holy Spirit. Certainly, it is impossible for any mortal to “complete the word of God” – He is God!
But more to the point of whole discussion, you are rightfully concerned about people like Joseph Smith, the Pope, Jim Jones and many others who declare to have a personal revelation from God, the only true doctrine and compel others to follow their leader.

Protestants believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

But I would put anyone who asks others to follow himself or his private revelation rather than God in exactly the same bucket and that is why I eschew all doctrine and traditions of men – including Calvin and Arminius and seemingly neverending authorities and commentators.

Neither man taught or believed in "personal revelation" or took their doctrine from that . Both men were scholars that drew their doctrine from scripture . That was a part of the issues that the reformers had with Rome..

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. – John 16:13-15

This is not a promise of 'PERSONAL Revelation' It is a promise of Illumination .I have to honest AG , what I have read in the last couple of days sounds like gnosticism

But more to the point of whole discussion, you are rightfully concerned about people like Joseph Smith, the Pope, Jim Jones and many others who declare to have a personal revelation from God, the only true doctrine and compel others to follow their leader.
But I would put anyone who asks others to follow himself or his private revelation rather than God in exactly the same bucket and that is why I eschew all doctrine and traditions of men – including Calvin and Arminius and seemingly neverending authorities and commentators.

I assert that we must focus utterly on the Great Commandments – to love God absolutely and everyone else unconditionally. We must let nothing whatsoever obscure our view of God. No doctrine, tradition, authority or mortal must get in between unless the Father personally establishes it which He did in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

1-The Lord tells us to try all spirits to see if they be of him.

2-The Lord is consistant same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Now many believe that it is every mam for himself which is confussion! will there NOT be Orderly giudance for those who are HIS? I do not believe as the deist we are on our own!

3-Does not the Lord leads through prophets and his annoited ones who are called as was Aaron. (Amos 3:8;Heb.5:4)

Amos 3
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Hebrews 13
1 LET brotherly love continue.

2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Heb. 5
Ministers must be called of God as was Aaron—Christ was a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek—Jesus Christ is the author of eternal salvation.

1 FOR every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.

4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

EX.28
1 AND take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron’s sons.

2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

3 And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron’s garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.

4 And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.

I believe there is structure and a pattern that is of the Lord. I believe there is a firm foundation, a restoration which was promised, and if you study each dispensation you will see there was instructions from the Lord which the previous generation did NOT have for did not relate to their circumstans, but to each dispensation the WORDS of the Lord is given to enable those to get through the mind fields. The Lord reveals according to our needs to know.

Thank you for your reply!

Protestants believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

Indeed, as compared to the Catholic doctrine of tradition being equal to Scripture. But the Scriptures tell us that it is the Spirit who leads us into Truth. The Scripture has this to say of itself:

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. – 2 Timothy 3:15-17

But there is more to understanding than Scriptures alone -John 5 above and :

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. – Matthew 22:29

Martin Luther understood this. At the Imperial Diet at Worms he said:

"Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen."

You continued:

Neither man [Calvin or Arminius] taught or believed in "personal revelation" or took their doctrine from that. Both men were scholars that drew their doctrine from scripture.

If either man relied on the Holy Spirit to understand the Scriptures, he had a personal revelation. If not, then no matter how much they knew of Scriptures as scholars, they would be lacking the most important understanding, the power of God. I have not studied either Calvin or Arminius because, like Martin Luther, I too am "captive of the Word of God".

This is not a promise of 'PERSONAL Revelation' It is a promise of Illumination .I have to honest AG , what I have read in the last couple of days sounds like gnosticism.

Sigh. God knows that I am not gnostic, even if you don’t.

We have a semantic problem, Rnmomof7. To you, the indwelling Holy Spirit gives illumination which you assert is not the same thing as a personal revelation. We might be able to clear the air better if you would define those terms the way you understand them.

1-The Lord tells us to try all spirits to see if they be of him.

By their fruit you will know them , nuf said :>)

Thank you so much for your post and for sharing those passages! And thank you both for providing me with specific information concerning LDS theology and your personal testimonies.

The Lord reveals according to our needs to know.

Indeed, the Lord reveals according to our need to know. But He also reveals Himself when we ask to know Him better or more fully, sometimes giving us understanding of Scriptures and sometimes in revealing His majesty concerning whatever is troubling us at the moment.

I have asked Him about some of the things which you have disclosed to me and He has not confirmed them and therefore I do not accept the additional scriptures of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Later Day Saints.

Please do not take this as a personal affront. I have had the same lack of confirmation with regard to most of the traditions of Catholic church and therefore I do not accept them either.

Nevertheless, any mortal being who confesses that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God, that He suffered and died as a propitiation for our sin and now sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven has the most important spiritual landmark in clear sight.

If all who perceive that landmark will only also ask for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Father will provide and the Spirit will lead all of us to Truth!

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? - Luke 11:13

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. - John 16:13

It is my earnest prayer that we all shall become "captive of the Word of God".

We have a semantic problem, Rnmomof7. To you, the indwelling Holy Spirit gives illumination which you assert is not the same thing as a personal revelation. We might be able to clear the air better if you would define those terms the way you understand them.

Indeed it seems we do. (BTW I have gotten mail that indicates others did not understand you either .) I hope that what you are calling "personal revelation " is actually" illumination "

MY definition would be , Personal Revelation would be extra scriptural .adding something new to scripture.

Illumination is having the Holy Spirit bring life to a passage for the reader, giving an insight or making it personal (applicable to the life of the reader )

Offical definitions

Revelation -From God to man (man hears what God wants written)

Inspiration: From man to paper (man writes that which God wants written)

Illumination: From paper to heart (man receives that which God has written)

http://withchrist.org/revelation.htm

You are correct Alamo-Girl, there have been a few "mini" raptures in the course of history! Enoch and Elijah are the two best examples of this. But there is only one End-Times rapture.

Unfortunatley, those verses that you provide in support of the pre-trib rapture acutally negate it once you take into consideration the context in which they appear. The most dangerous thing we as Christians do is pull verses out of context to support our pet doctrines without due consideration of the overall context in which they appear.

For instance, there is Matthew 24:38-41:

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. – Matthew 24:38-41

The context these verses appears in is ALL of Matthew 24 and 25. To understand the full implication of what Jesus is saying here, one must understand all that which comes before: Matthew 24:1-37. It's too long of a passage to quote in full, but it blatantly contradicts the pre-trib ratpure doctrine. Here are they main points Jesus makes BEFORE bringing up Noah and the flood:

1. The temple will be destroyed (24:1-2)
1. There will be many false Christs appearing (24:3-5)
2. There will be many more wars (24:6-8)
3. There will be persecution unto death (24:9)
4. Believers will fall away from the faith (24:10)
5. False prophets will arise to mislead people (24:11)
6. Love will be an increasingly rare thing (24:12)
7. The gospel must be preached to the whole world (24:13-14)
8. The antichrist will be revealed (24:15)
9. There will be great tribulation against believers('the elect'); so bad that if it were not put to an end, no one would survive the persecution! (24:16-22)
10. False Christs will be everywhere, and they will have miraculous powers! (24:24-28)
11. The literal, physical, visible return of Christ occurs (24:29-30)
12. The rapture takes place --the only mention of a rapture up to this point! (24:31)
13. Jesus warns his listeners that all these events must take place, just as he described them. And they must happen before His return (24:32-35)
14. Jesus warns that no one knows when these events will take place, except for the Father (24:36)
15. Jesus warns that His coming (and the circumstances, events surrounding his coming), will be similar to that of the days of Noah (24:36)

Now that we see the 'big picture' of what Jesus is talking about, we see that Jesus does not bring up The Rapture until after a whole bunch of other stuff happens first, including the revealing of the antichrist, the great tribulation against believers, and his own physical, visibile return to earth. There is no possible way you can interpret this passage and come up with a pre-trib rapture, not unless you wish to make Jesus a liar. Yes, it is literally that serious of a matter.

However, there are more than a few "prophets" that are making Jesus out to be a liar, and telling us the rapture will take place before the great tribulation, and everything else besides! (Or that there will be more than one rapture...) But they don't have a biblical leg to stand on; and as a matter of fact, the Bible clearly and consistently contradicts this position at every turn.

As for Noah, did he know 'the end' was coming? Yes. Did he prepare for 'the end?' Yes. Did he get 'raptured' before the floods came? No! Did Noah get 'raptured' (via the ark) at the exact same time that the floods came to destroy evil? Yes! Did the wicked people alive during Noah's time expect the floods to come and wipe them out? No!

So the point of bringing up Noah's story is to show that there will be people who are wise like Noah that will be prepared for the end; and there will be fools, like the evil people alive during the time of Noah, who aren't going to know what hit them. It is those kind of people Jesus is refering to when he speaks about coming 'like a thief.'

How do we know that Christians will be aware of Christ's coming, while evil people will be living 'high on the hog,' not knowing their destruction is near? Because Jesus has warned us AHEAD OF TIME about those events that WILL PROCEED his coming and the subsequent rapture. As Jesus says himself: "See, I have told you ahead of time." (Mt 24:25)

But not only does Jesus warn us, so does Paul:

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1 Thes 5:1-5

Paul is paraphrasing Jesus in his letter to the Thessalonians; his warning is the same as that of Jesus (as you correctly point out). The suddeness of Christ's return will ONLY be a surprise to the unbelievers, not the believers, who will be expecting his return because they are watching for the signs Jesus himself gave us. It will be just as the flood was only was a surprise to the wicked people God determined to wipe out, not to Noah and his family; they were prepared.

Jesus does not give us a date, BUT he does give us signs to watch for. He does not want his return to be a complete surprise to believers, rather he wants us to be expecting it, and to be prepared for it.

In the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture, there is nothing to watch and wait for, as there will be no visible, physical return of Jesus before the rapture, no great tribulation, no antichrist setting up his world dominion. The pre-trib doctine is a blatant contradiction of what Jesus himself tells us. Wherever the idea for a pre-trib rapture came from, it wasn't the Bible, and certainly not Jesus.

Alamo-Girl, I realize that the pre-trib rapture is taken as gospel truth by 90 to 95% of evangelical Christians, but they believe it because that is what they are taught to believe. Competing viewpoints surrounding the end-times are either ignored, or falsly shown to be lacking in some way. People like Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsay are especially guilty on these points.

My intention is not to further the pre, mid, post tribulation debate, but to end it. We all have access to the same Word of Truth, we all have access to the tools we need to interpret and understand it correctly. If we are being taught something that contradicts the Word of God, no matter how many other believe it, we need to discard it.

Here is a challenge for you Alamo-Girl, and for anyone else who cares to try: show me, using nothing more than the Bible, a passage from scripture that clearly shows a rapture occuring before the revealing of the antichrist, the great tribulation, and Jesus' physical, visible return to earth. I've shown you two passages; 2 Thessalonians 2 and Matthew 24; where the rapture does not happen until after all the events of the end-times takes place first. There are many more passages I can give you that demonstrate this exact same chain of events. There will be no rapture until the very end.

If you wish to believe the pre-trib rapture, do it because it is the truth of God's Word, not because it is the deceptive teachings of know-nothing teachers of the end-times, who are more interested in making a fast buck then leading the church into all truth. (Yes, I'm speaking directly of LaHaye and Lindsay, both who've profited handsomely from their "teachings" -- Tyndale House Publishers has a brand-spanking new, state-of-the-art printing plant in operation thanks to all the revenue from the "Left Behind" books.)

A proper understanding of end-times events, as described by the BIBLE, is of critical importance at this time. We are certainly getting closer to the end, not further from it! There's good reason why so many of us feel that Jesus will come back during our lifetimes. But even if he doesn't, we need to make sure the subsequent generations are armed with the Word of Truth, and not some goofey teachings based on self-preservation.

What's going to happen to all those who've put their faith in the pre-trib rapture, only to see the antichrist come to power and the greatest persecution in the history of planet earth take place??? Will they be willing to die for the sake of the gospel after they've been lied to by their own shepherds? I doubt it. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

Those who are expecting to see all that Jesus describes will be in a good place, even if they are ulitmately martyred for their stand. They believed in the warnings, and understood that they applied to them. They will be prepared to sacrifice their lives for their faith.

As John clearly states in Revelation:

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.
Revelation 6:9-11 NIV

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After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:
“Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!”
Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
NOTE: They "came out" of the great tribulation through maryrtdom, not ratpure...]
Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Revelation 7:9-17 NIV

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Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
Revelation 12:10-11 NIV

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Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished.
Revelation 17:3-6 NIV

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I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.
They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4 NIV

Thank you so much for the definitions! Indeed, we have a semantic problem.

To start, there is nothing more personal than the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. There is no hiding from Him, no secrets, no spinning. The indwelling is as personal as it gets.

The word ”revelation” is defined by the dictionary as: “an act of revealing or communicating divine truth” and ”something that is revealed by God to humans”.

When I use the term “personal revelation” I intend the above meaning, not the more theologically oriented definitions you have cited, i.e. that something is to be written for Scripture.

Nevertheless, when the Holy Spirit indwells He indeed brings the Scriptures to life – which you call “illumination”.

But that is not all, He also gives discernment in every situation – spiritual clarity to know Truth from fiction, right from wrong, etc. This is prophesy, insight. He also gives us foresight, understanding where a thing today will lead or something which we have yet to face.

He also uplifts our worship and petitions, rapturing us in the “here and now” to love God more fully than our conscious mind could ever allow. At this level we are worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. – John 4:23-24

He also prays for us and heals our mortal bodies. He protects us and leads us and comforts us. All of this He does as long as we surrender to His leading (Romans 8).

When I speak of “personal revelation” I am speaking of all these things.

But that is not all, He also gives discernment in every situation – spiritual clarity to know Truth from fiction, right from wrong, etc. This is prophesy, insight. He also gives us foresight, understanding where a thing today will lead or something which we have yet to face

What happens when two believers read the same scripture or hear the same word, yet disagree on its meaning? How is that resolved? How can it be an absolute?

BTW I think your definition is still too broad and does have more elements than Illumination. We have to be careful not to add extras to the word of God.

BTW I would say illuminations tend to be personal. If I tell you something that God has shown me, you may not see it..I think it depends on the spiritual maturity and needs of the hearer

Thank you for your reply!

What happens when two believers read the same scripture or hear the same word, yet disagree on its meaning? How is that resolved? How can it be an absolute?

He could have chosen twelve disciples with the same personality. He didn't. In both the book of Acts and in the first few chapters of Revelation it is readily apparent that Christ allows us to have such differences. In fact, it was just such a difference that led to the split-up between Paul and Barnabas and thus spread the Gospel even further. The warnings and commendations in Revelation show the limits of His patience in the matter.

BTW I think your definition is still too broad and does have more elements than Illumination.

I choose to use the term "personal revelation" to describe the experience of being led by the Holy Spirit. It is most certainly much more than illumination of Scriptures.

We have to be careful not to add extras to the word of God.

It is impossible to add to the word of God because the Word of God is God (John 1).

Thank you very much for your vigorous defense of post-trib theology! But I still do not agree. Again, I offer these:

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. – Revelation 3:10

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, - 1 Thessalonians 5:9

And concerning the analysis of Matthew 24, here is my pre-trib understanding:

It begins:

1-2 refers to the actual destruction of the temple in 70 AD

3 the disciples ask what are the signs of His coming.

He answers:

4-5 speaks of many false Christs will appear, not to be deceived

6-8 wars and rumors of wars, but it is just the beginning.

9 all the nations will hate Christians

10 believers will fall away

11 there will be false prophets

12 love will be a rare thing

13 he that endures to the end will be saved

14 the gospel will be preached everywhere and “then shall the end come”

15-20 when you see the abomination of desolution, flee

21-22 for “then shall be the great tribulation

23-28 then is when there will be false prophets and false Christs everywhere with great power

29-30 then Christ appears in power, visibly as He left

31 – the elect are gathered “from one end of heaven to the other”

Then He separately says:

32-34 the generation that sees these signs is the last generation

35-36 that His words are true though only the Father knows the exact date and time

Then He separately says:

37-44 that everything will be business as usual when He comes

I believe the last verses apply to the pre-trib rapture because people wouldn’t be “eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage” – working in the fields, etc. when the ecology was mostly destroyed and they had suffered physical injuries galore and economic disaster and other such horrific calamities as prophesied in Revelation for the Great Tribulation.

Are you using the word Illumination as in quicken?

This would be a form of revelation or witnessing to!

The Holy spirit has an endless repertor of enlightment.

15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

I'd type in tongues, but I'm not sure how to do that [no joking or offense intended]!

No one on the religion forum shows a more Christ-like attitude than you, and you quote the scriptures very well. Best regards.

Thank you so much for your post! Indeed, the ministry of the Holy Spirit is vast.

Are you using the word Illumination as in quicken?

I'm not sure what you mean by "quicken" in the above sentence. Could you explain it a bit further?

Thank you oh so very much for your encouragements! Hugs!!!

But that is not all, He also gives discernment in every situation – spiritual clarity to know Truth from fiction, right from wrong, etc. This is prophesy, insight. He also gives us foresight, understanding where a thing today will lead or something which we have yet to face.

kewl-the spiritual clarity discerns the flesh from the spirit, the corporael from the uncorporeal?

Thank you so much for your reply!

kewl-the spiritual clarity discerns the flesh from the spirit, the corporael from the uncorporeal?

The indwelling Spirit discerns much more than physical v spiritual:

For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12

The Spirit is non-spatial, non-temporal and non-corporeal.

The Spirit is non-spatial, non-temporal and non-corporeal.

Ah Yes! And helps us see beyond the corporeal to the true spiritual?

Your #20: [Gnosticism] is a catch-all term used by many doctrines to condemn perceived heresies.

There are people in this world who seem to address every disagreement with their religious views by claiming that it is rooted in heresy somehow, and they always seem to imply that the other guy is the heretic. It is a way of insisting on conformity with their views.

Jesus does not work this way. Nor does the Holy Spirit. Nor did the ancient apostles.

We should instead, as you have also encouraged, exhort all to come to Christ, receive those He has sent, follow His example in meekness, humility, and kindness, and let His light shine through us.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear [also translated "reverence"]:

Thanks for all your good posts and your fine example in this regard!

MY TWELVE THESES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT