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MARIAN DEVOTION - Akathist Hymn to the Mother of God
Various ^

Posted on 05/03/2004 8:48:00 AM PDT by NYer

Akathist Hymn
to the Mother of God


 

Kontakion
To you, / powerful Queen and Ruler,
we sing/ this song of praise to you, Mother of God.
Since you/ have unconquerable power,
Protect us/ from all danger so that we may sing to you:
Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden - ever-pure!

 

Ode 1

From the Soul
An archangel was sent from Heaven, to greet the Mother of God. And as he saw You, O Lord, assuming human form, he stood rapt in amazement and cried out to her in these words:

Rejoice, O you, though whom joy will shine forth!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Rejoice, O restoration of the fallen Adam!
Rejoice, O redemption of the tears of Eve!

Rejoice, O height, beyond human understanding!
Rejoice, O depth, not fathomed by the angels!
Rejoice, for you are the Throne of the King!
Rejoice, for you carried Him, Who carries all!

Rejoice, O morning star who manifests the Sun!
Rejoice, O womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Rejoice, O you, through whom Creation is renewed!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Knowing that she was pure, the most blessed Virgin quickly answered Gabriel saying: "My soul is unable to understand Your mysterious words. How is it, that you speak of a birth that is to come from a conception without seed, and sing: Alleluia?"

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 2

From the Soul
Trying to grasp the meaning of this mystery, the Virgin asked the holy messenger of God: "How is it possible that a son be born of a virginal womb? Tell me." But instead he answered her with great awe, crying out in these words:

Rejoice, Hidden secret of God's ineffable Plan!
Rejoice, for you believed in the Mystery unrevealed!
Rejoice, for you are the beginning of the miracles of Christ!
Rejoice, for you are the crown of the truths concerning Him!

Rejoice, O heavenly Ladder, by which God came down!
Rejoice, O Bridge, leading those on earth to heaven!
Rejoice, O Miracle, most-wondrous to the angels!
Rejoice, O Wound, bewailed by the demons!

Rejoice, for you gave birth to the glorious Light!
Rejoice, for you did not revel how it was done!
Rejoice, for you surpass the wisdom of the wise!
Rejoice, for you enlighten the minds of the faithful!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When the power of the Most High overshadowed the one who is blessed among women, her fruitful womb conceived. She became for all a wondrous field — for those who wish to reap salvation while singing: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 3

From the Soul
Bearing God in her womb the Virgin hastened to Elizabeth, whose unborn child immediately recognized her greeting and rejoiced. Leaping up as if in song, he cried out to the Mother of God:

Rejoice, O Vine, bearing the unfolding Bloom!
Rejoice, O Land, who bears immortal Fruit!
Rejoice, O you, who cared for the Lover of mankind!
Rejoice, O you, who gave birth to the Giver of life!

Rejoice, O Field, bearing a wealth of compassion!
Rejoice, O Table, laden with gifts of mercy!
Rejoice, for you make Paradise blossom in beauty again!
Rejoice, for you prepare a haven for our souls!

Rejoice, most pleasing Incense of intercession!
Rejoice, Offering for the whole world!
Rejoice, good will of God unto all mankind
Rejoice, Confidence of all before God.

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Joseph, a righteous man, was overcome by doubt and contradiction. He feared that You, all-blameless One, had been deluded by someone until he learned that Your conception was by the power of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph cried out: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 4

From the Soul
The Shepherds heard the angels singing hymns of praise to Christ, who had come to earth in human flesh. They hurried to Him as would the flock to its Master and upon seeing God as the spotless Lamb nurtured from the womb of Mary, they greeted her saying:

Rejoice, Mother of the Lamb and the Shepherd!
Rejoice, Fold of spiritual lambs!
Rejoice, Protection against invisible foes!
Rejoice, Key to the doors of Paradise!

Rejoice, for the heavens rejoice with the earth!
Rejoice, for the earth sings praise with the heavens!
Rejoice, unceasing glory of the Apostles!
Rejoice, unconquerable courage of the Martyrs!

Rejoice, O firm foundation of faith!
Rejoice, O radiant recognition of grace!
Rejoice, O you through whom hell was stripped bare!
Rejoice, O you through whom we are clothed with glory.

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When they saw God's wondrous Star, the Magi followed its glittering light as they would a beacon, in search of a mighty King. And having found Him, they drew near the unapproachable One, rejoicing and exclaiming: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 5

 From the Soul
When the sons of Chaldea beheld in the hands of the Virgin, Him, the Creator, who had fashioned mankind by His own Hand, they recognized in Him their Master, even though He had come as a tiny Babe. And so they hastened to honour Him with gifts and to the greet the most-blessed of all women:

Rejoice, O Mother of the never-setting Star!
Rejoice, O Dawn of the Mystic day!
Rejoice, O you, who quenched the furnace of error,
Rejoice, O you, who guard the disciples of the Holy Trinity!

Rejoice, for you banished from power the merciless tyrant!
Rejoice, for you made manifest Christ the Lord, the Lover of Mankind,
Rejoice, for you have delivered us from pagan worship!
Rejoice, for you freed us from unclean deeds.

Rejoice, O you who suppressed the worship of fire!
Rejoice, O you who quench the flames of the passions!
Rejoice, O Guide of the faithful towards wisdom!
Rejoice, O Joy of all generations!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Having fulfilled Your prophecy, O Lord, the Magi returned to Babylon as God-bearing heralds. They preached to all and witnessed to You as the Christ, leaving Herod behind as a fool, who could not sing: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 6

From the Soul
Illuminating Egypt with the light of Truth, You dispelled the darkness of sin and seduction, O Saviour. The idols of that land fell down, unable to withstand Your power and all who were delivered from them greeted the Mother of God:

Rejoice, elation of mankind!
Rejoice, downfall of the demons!
Rejoice, for you crushed the power of deceit!
Rejoice, for you exposed the fraud of idols!

Rejoice, for like the Red Sea, you have drowned the Pharaoh of duplicity!
Rejoice, for like the rock, you have given drink to those who thirst for life!
Rejoice, Pillar of fire, guiding those in darkness!
Rejoice, Protection of the world, broader that the clouds!

Rejoice, O Successor to manna!
Rejoice, O Servant of the Banquet Divine!
Rejoice, O Promised Land!
Rejoice, Land of milk and honey!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When Simeon was soon to leave this deceitful world, You were brought to him as a Child. Taking You into his arms he recognized You as the true God, and marveling at Your ineffable wisdom, he cried out: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 7

From the Soul
The Creator revealed a new creation when He came down to us, His creation. He came forth from a womb that had received no seed, preserving it intact as it was before, so that seeing this miracle we might sing to the Mother of God:

Rejoice, O Flower of incorruption!
Rejoice, O Garland of purity!
Rejoice, O you, who shine as a sign of the resurrection!
Rejoice, O you, who reveal the life of the angels!

Rejoice, Tree of good fruit from which the faithful feed!
Rejoice, shady Glen where many find shelter!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Saviour of the captives!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Leader for the lost!

Rejoice, Intercessor before the Just Judge!
Rejoice, Forgiveness of many sins!
Rejoice, Hope of the hopeless!
Rejoice, Tenderness beyond all expectations!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Seeing this miraculous birth, let us become strangers to the world and fix our minds on Heaven. Indeed, it is for this reason that the God Most-High appeared on earth: e became a humble man, desiring to draw up to heaven all those who cry out to Him: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 8

 From the Soul
The Word unfathomed was wholly present here below, yet in no way absent from the realm on high. For this was a Divine Descent and not a change of place. His birth was from a Virgin who received God, as she heard these words:

Rejoice, Vessel of the uncontainable God!
Rejoice, Gate of Solemn Mystery!
Rejoice, Unheard Message for unbelievers!
Rejoice, highest Praise of the faithful!

Rejoice, most holy chariot of Him, who rides upon the Cherubim!
Rejoice, most glorious Dwelling of the One above the Seraphim!
Rejoice, O you, who joined opposites!
Rejoice O you, who united virginity and motherhood!

Rejoice, O you, through whom sin was absolved!
Rejoice, O you, through whom paradise was re-opened!
Rejoice, Key to the Kingdom of Christ!
Rejoice, Hope of eternal blessing!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
All the angelic hosts were amazed at Your Incarnation, for they saw God, Whom no one can approach, as a man, approachable by all. He came to dwell among us and He heard from all: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 9

From the Soul
Worldly speakers become mute as fish before you, O Mother of God, for they are at a loss to say how you remained a virgin and yet were able to bear a child. As for us, while marveling at this mystery, we cry out to you with faith:

Rejoice, Vessel of the Wisdom of God!
Rejoice, Treasury of His Providence!
Rejoice, Reproof of foolish philosophers!
Rejoice, for the eloquent become speechless before you!

Rejoice, for the clever have made fools of themselves!
Rejoice, for the myth-makers have been silenced!
Rejoice, for you dispelled the Athenian snares!
Rejoice, for you filled the nets of the fishermen!

Rejoice, O you, who draw us from the depths of ignorance!
Rejoice, O Lamplight of understanding to many!
Rejoice, O Ship, for all who seek salvation!
Rejoice, O Harbour, in the voyage of life!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
Wishing to save the world, the Creator of all came to us as He had promised. Being our God and our Shepherd, out of love for us He took flesh and appeared to all. As man - he called out to all mankind; and as God - he heard from us: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 10

From the Soul
O Virgin, Mother of God, you are the strength of virgins and of all those who take refuge in you. For the Creator of heaven and earth gave you to be our Protectress, O Pure One. He dwelt in your womb and taught all to cry out to you:

Rejoice, Pillar of virginity!
Rejoice, Gate of salvation!
Rejoice, Leader of spiritual renewal!
Rejoice, Bestower of God's grace!

Rejoice, for you restore those conceived in sin!
Rejoice, for you counsel those lost in their understanding!
Rejoice, for you stopped the corrupter of hearts!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Sower of Chastity!

Rejoice, bridal Chamber of a betrothal without seed!
Rejoice, for you joined the faithful to their Lord!
Rejoice, gracious Mother of virgins!
Rejoice, Bridal escort of Holy souls!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
The greatest song of praise cannot compare with the multitude of Your mercies, O Holy King! We could sing to You as many songs as there are grains of sand, and yet do nothing worthy of what You have given to us, who cry out to You: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 11

From the Heart
We see the holy Virgin as a light-bearing lamp, appearing to those who live in darkness. For she is the one who kindled the immaterial Light, and now, she leads all mankind to the knowledge of God. She fills ours minds with radiance and is worthy of being praised in these words:

Rejoice, Ray of the Living Sun!
Rejoice, Radiance, unfading in splendor!
Rejoice, Lightning-flash that enlightens our souls!
Rejoice, Thunder-clap, that strikes down all foes!

Rejoice, for you caused the many-starred Light to dawn,
Rejoice, for you caused the ever-flowing River to spring,
Rejoice, Icon of the baptismal font,
Rejoice, for you wash away the stain of sin!

Rejoice, flowing water, that cleanses the conscience!
Rejoice, holy Vessel, overflowing with joy!
Rejoice, Fragrance of the sweetness Christ!
Rejoice, Life of the Mystical Banquet!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
The Lord, who settles all men's scores, desired to make right the ancient debts by means of grace. He came of His own will to those who had fallen from His grace and He tore up the record of their wrong-doings. From all He hears: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 12

From the Soul
As we sing of Your childbirth, we praise you as the living Temple, O Mother of God. For the Lord, Who holds all things in His Hand made His dwelling in Your womb. He hallowed and He glorified You, teaching all to sing to You:

Rejoice, O Tabernacle of God the Word!
Rejoice, O Holy One, greater than the Holies!
Rejoice, O Ark, made golden by the Spirit!
Rejoice, O inexhaustible Treasury of life!

Rejoice, precious Crown of pious Kings!
Rejoice, sacred glory of reverent priests!
Rejoice, invincible tower of the Church!
Rejoice, indestructible Wall of the kingdom!

Rejoice, O you, through whom Victory is assured!
Rejoice, O you, through whom enemies are cast down!
Rejoice, O Healing of my body!
Rejoice, O Salvation of my soul!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

 

Kontakion
O Mother worthy of all praise;
you who have given birth to the Word,
the Holiest of the Holy,
accept this present offering, deliver us from all affliction,
and save from the future punishment those who cry out to you:
Alleluia!

  

Final Ode

From the Soul
To you, O powerful Queen and Ruler, we sing this song of praise to you, Mother of God. Since you have unconquerable power, protect us from all danger so that we may sing to you: Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

An archangel was sent from Heaven, to greet the Mother of God. And as he saw You, O Lord, assuming human form, he stood rapt in amazement and cried out to her in these words :

Rejoice, O you, though whom joy will shine forth!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Rejoice, O restoration of the fallen Adam!
Rejoice, O redemption of the tears of Eve!

Rejoice, O height, beyond human understanding!
Rejoice, O depth, not fathomed by the angels!
Rejoice, for you are the Throne of the King!
Rejoice, for you carried Him, Who carries all!

Rejoice, O morning star who manifests the Sun!
Rejoice, O womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Rejoice, O you, through whom Creation is renewed!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

 

Prayer to the Mother of God

All: O Most Holy Sovereign Lady and Mother of God, powerful to all good, receive from your unworthy servants this praiseworthy hymn, which is due to you alone, for you have been chosen from among the human race and are higher than all celestial and earthly creatures. For through you, our Almighty Lord has dwelt among us; through you, we have come to know the Son of God and are honoured to have his Most Holy Body and Most Precious Blood. Thus you are blessed among all generations.

You are higher in honour than the Cherubim and beyond compare more glorious that the Seraphim. O most-honourable and most holy Mother of God, do not cease to pray for us today, your unworthy servants, so that we may be protected against the guile of the evil one; from his greediness; and that we be delivered unharmed from the his deadly temptations.

Protect us with your prayer until the end of our life and before the eternal judgment; that we, being saved by your help and intercession, might give glory, praise, thanksgiving and honour for all, to the Holy Trinity, One God and Creator of all creatures, now and always and forever. Amen.

 

Dismissal

Priest: Wisdom!

All: Higher in honour than the Cherubim* and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim.* Who a virgin, gave birth to the Word of God,* you truly are the Mother of God and we praise you!

Priest: Glory to You, Christ God, Our Hope, glory to You!

All: †Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now, and forever, and unto ages of ages. Amen. Lord, have mercy (3). Give the blessing!

Priest: May Christ our True God, through the prayers of his most pure Mother and those all the Saints, have mercy on us and save us, for he is good and the Lover of mankind.

All: Amen.

 

Rejoice Virgin Mary

Rejoice Virgin Mary, Full of Grace!
O Theotokos, the Lord is with you!
Blessed are you among women!
and blessed is the fruit of your womb:
For you have given birth,
to the Saviour of our souls (2).


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To: HarleyD
>> Also, when Jesus was told that His mother and brothers were outside Jesus asked the retorical question, "Who are My mother and brothers but these who do the will of My Father." Not the kind of response one would have expected Jesus to say about the mother of God. <<

Maybe you got what I said, but maybe I said it to briefly: That passage instructs us HOW to fulfill John 19's command to honor our Mother: By obeying those who do his will. Ask yourself, "in what way does he mean that these people are his mother and brothers?" The answer: in that we should give them the respect of being so close to Jesus.

If I tell you, "we were treated like family," does that diminish what being family means to you? Of course not! It speaks to how mice we were treated, and by using family as an ideal, it makes us associate family with kind, generous and giving... even if our own family was not. In such a way, telling us to treat those who obey him as his mother commands us to respect one another, but it also perpetuate the notion that his mother *is* due respect!

>>That's a pretty inclusive statement and includes Enoch and Elijah. <<

Yes, THAT statement includes Elijah and Enoch. My point in mentionning Elijah and Enoch is that other passages which seem equally all-inclusive ("No-one has seen the Father, but he whom the Father has sent", "All have perished," etc.) still have exceptions. IF you did not know better about Elijah and Enoch, surely you would say there are no exceptions to their cases, also. But there is ONE exception to the statement you made which we do know about: Christ has not sinned. Now, you'll say, "Well, of course not, but..." The obviousness of THAT exception is, well, obvious. But it does mean that Paul was not being ABSOLUTE in pointing out any exceptions. Less careful than Jesus, who had said "except the one whom he has sent," but still left out Jacob.

When you read the bible saying "All" or "none" ask "all who?" "none who?" In each case (Jacob, Mary, Elijah, Enoch), the author felt no need to exclude anyone whom the reader was never going to meet in the flesh.
41 posted on 05/03/2004 1:23:13 PM PDT by dangus
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: sartorius
The farther we get from scriptural terminology the less likely I am to agree with anything. I also have a very tough time with man putting things of God in terms of engineering requirements.
43 posted on 05/03/2004 1:27:54 PM PDT by biblewonk (No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.)
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: biblewonk
>> The Church did not give birth to Jesus in any sense.<<

No, but it will... the mission of the Church is to bring Christ into the world. The historic basis of Revelations 12 (the origin of the metaphor, so to speak) is Mary giving birth to Christ. The prophetic allusion, however, is that the Church will bear suffering, such as childbirth, in bringing Christ into the world. Please note the length of woman's time in Egypt...
45 posted on 05/03/2004 1:33:45 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
I would add that when Jesus calls Mary "Woman," he is using the same play on words Genesis recorded: "Eve" meaning "Woman."

However, Jesus did not use the phrase exclusively with respect to Mary. E.g.,

Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. (Matt. 15:28)

John used the same construct for Jesus' conversation with the woman at the well.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. (John 4:21)

And the woman taken in adultery.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? (John 8:10)

Jesus spoke to Mary no differently than He spoke to Samaritans and adulterers. Your reference proves nothing, except that Jesus liked that phrase.

46 posted on 05/03/2004 1:34:20 PM PDT by topcat54
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: dangus
Please note the length of woman's time in Egypt...

I'm missing the egypt reference unless you mean "the wilderness".

49 posted on 05/03/2004 1:42:44 PM PDT by biblewonk (No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.)
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To: sartorius
It has been a pleasure discussing this with you. Perhaps we should both pray on it. I'll look into some Scriptural references that might help.

The pleasure is all mine! Thank you too.

50 posted on 05/03/2004 1:43:13 PM PDT by biblewonk (No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.)
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To: sartorius
The Ten Commandments and manna were kept in the Ark of the Covenant which was built according to God's specifications.

So was Aaron's rod that budded. I don't see your point. The ark contained a record of God's redemption of Israel. The items themselves were not holy. They only had significance insofar as they were used by God to redeem His people.

This is in a culture which washed ritually for every meal!

Which Jesus condemned as a human tradition. (Mark. 7:3ff).

This is why Gabriel called her "full of grace." She was sinless as the prospective Mother of God should be....

Only according to RC theology. It ain't in the Bible. The same word is used in Eph. 1:6 to refer to all followers of Christ.

51 posted on 05/03/2004 1:45:13 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: biblewonk
>> "Born of a woman" and "Born of her flesh" are 2 very different things, the scripture never says anything about the latter. <<

Yes, he calls himself the Son of Man. If he's not Mary's son, whose son is he?

>> He does not have to be of her egg to for all of the scripture about Him to be true yet if He is of her egg the verse in question falls apart.<<

Actually, the verse says, "born of woman." Whether he is her egg or not, he is still born of Mary. The question is whether or not he is from her egg, or, to put in other words, "conceived of her." The answer to this question is plain: "You shall conceive a son." Not, "a son shall be conceived within you." No: it is SHE who conceives the Son of God!

This is what Satan could not fathom... Satan though he has won when he led Eve and Adam astray, but God had an even bigger surprise up his sleeve... Through the "neccessary fault of Adam," God gave woman and man the fantastic ability to share in his act of creation.

This grace was not lessened in Mary, but exalted further: the ultimate act of Mercy which confounds Satan: that God so redeemed our nature that through a mortal creature, the immortal creator entered the world.

Throughout Christ's crucifixion, Satan thought he was winning: Man was proving, before a just God, that he was unworthy of salvation. Imagine the shock and horror apon Satan when he heard Jesus proclaim, "it is accomplished," and breathe his last breath.

No, God was conceived of a woman, became man, suffered, was crucified, died and was buried. He was made man; his nature was fully human. He shared our genes.
52 posted on 05/03/2004 1:48:13 PM PDT by dangus
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To: biblewonk
I'm missing the egypt reference unless you mean "the wilderness".

Yes, of course... Mary fled to Egypt, the woman is described as fleeing to the desert.
53 posted on 05/03/2004 1:49:20 PM PDT by dangus
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To: seamole
I seem to have forgotten the passage where he crawled inside a tax collector and went to sleep curled up in his belly.

This is an odd statement for a person who accepts the RC dogma of transubstantiation. Doesn't Jesus literally "crawl inside you" at the so-called sacrifice of the Mass? Does that not require you to be born sinless?

But RC dogma only teaches that you need to be in a "state of grace" in order to receivce the wafer. Just as Mary only needed to be in a "state of grace" when the Child was conceived in her womb, not from the time she herself was conceived.

54 posted on 05/03/2004 1:52:00 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: dangus
Yes, of course... Mary fled to Egypt, the woman is described as fleeing to the desert.

I don't see that as egypt but the spiritual wilderness of the world.

55 posted on 05/03/2004 1:58:13 PM PDT by biblewonk (No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.)
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To: topcat54
Just as Mary only needed to be in a "state of grace" when the Child was conceived in her womb

Except that she couldn't have been (absent the Immaculate Conception), because the Sacrament of Baptism wasn't instituted yet. Children (even Jewish children) aren't born in the state of grace, because of original sin.

56 posted on 05/03/2004 2:05:31 PM PDT by Campion
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To: topcat54
>> Your reference proves nothing, except that Jesus liked that phrase. <<

What makes it unusual is its usage. It's an odd thing to call your own mother "woman." But I'm not sure your counter-examples make your case very well. You say he used it for Samaritans and adulterers. Well, what did he say to them?

O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee as thou wilt.
Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?... Then neither shall I.

Each of these restored the grace of God.
57 posted on 05/03/2004 2:05:36 PM PDT by dangus
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To: sartorius
"You believe the new Eve is Israel and I'll believe it is Mary, the mother of Jesus. "

Eve came from Adam not vice versa. Adam was put to sleep by God and while he was asleep God formed a woman from his side. Christ was put to death (sleep) on the Cross, and as John records in the Gospel of John, out of His side came Blood and Water. It was from this that the Church is formed. The Church (the new Eve) was formed from Christ (the new Adam). Eve was the bride of Adam and the Church is the Bride of Christ. Mary is not Christ's bride.

JM
58 posted on 05/03/2004 2:06:46 PM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: biblewonk
>> I don't see that as egypt but the spiritual wilderness of the world. <<
O for crying out loud! Quit saying about everything, "it doesn't mean that, it means this." It means both of it! It's prophecy! EVERYTHING has two meanings. (actually, four.)

The woman who bears Christ in Revelations fled into the desert. The woman who actually bore Christ fled into Egypt. You don't suppose there's a connection between Egypt and the desert, do you? Egypt is the land of spiritual wilderness, exile from the promised land. For three and a half years (a symbolic period of time, doubtlessly), the Holy City of God shall be assaulted by the forces of Satan. During this time, the Church will be in exile, forced into spiritual wilderness.
59 posted on 05/03/2004 2:12:18 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Campion
Except that she couldn't have been (absent the Immaculate Conception), because the Sacrament of Baptism wasn't instituted yet. Children (even Jewish children) aren't born in the state of grace, because of original sin.

Where is the logic in this comment?

First of all, Mary was not a child when she conceived Jesus. She was, by definition, a woman since she was capable of conceiving.

Second, baptism does not infuse grace into an infant.

Third, Mary didn't need to be born in a state of gace, she simply needed to be "sanctified" at the moment of conception. That is what the angel declared. It's very simple when you eliminate the unnecessary additions.

60 posted on 05/03/2004 2:14:42 PM PDT by topcat54
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