Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

MARIAN DEVOTION - Akathist Hymn to the Mother of God
Various ^

Posted on 05/03/2004 8:48:00 AM PDT by NYer

Akathist Hymn
to the Mother of God


 

Kontakion
To you, / powerful Queen and Ruler,
we sing/ this song of praise to you, Mother of God.
Since you/ have unconquerable power,
Protect us/ from all danger so that we may sing to you:
Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden - ever-pure!

 

Ode 1

From the Soul
An archangel was sent from Heaven, to greet the Mother of God. And as he saw You, O Lord, assuming human form, he stood rapt in amazement and cried out to her in these words:

Rejoice, O you, though whom joy will shine forth!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Rejoice, O restoration of the fallen Adam!
Rejoice, O redemption of the tears of Eve!

Rejoice, O height, beyond human understanding!
Rejoice, O depth, not fathomed by the angels!
Rejoice, for you are the Throne of the King!
Rejoice, for you carried Him, Who carries all!

Rejoice, O morning star who manifests the Sun!
Rejoice, O womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Rejoice, O you, through whom Creation is renewed!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Knowing that she was pure, the most blessed Virgin quickly answered Gabriel saying: "My soul is unable to understand Your mysterious words. How is it, that you speak of a birth that is to come from a conception without seed, and sing: Alleluia?"

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 2

From the Soul
Trying to grasp the meaning of this mystery, the Virgin asked the holy messenger of God: "How is it possible that a son be born of a virginal womb? Tell me." But instead he answered her with great awe, crying out in these words:

Rejoice, Hidden secret of God's ineffable Plan!
Rejoice, for you believed in the Mystery unrevealed!
Rejoice, for you are the beginning of the miracles of Christ!
Rejoice, for you are the crown of the truths concerning Him!

Rejoice, O heavenly Ladder, by which God came down!
Rejoice, O Bridge, leading those on earth to heaven!
Rejoice, O Miracle, most-wondrous to the angels!
Rejoice, O Wound, bewailed by the demons!

Rejoice, for you gave birth to the glorious Light!
Rejoice, for you did not revel how it was done!
Rejoice, for you surpass the wisdom of the wise!
Rejoice, for you enlighten the minds of the faithful!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When the power of the Most High overshadowed the one who is blessed among women, her fruitful womb conceived. She became for all a wondrous field — for those who wish to reap salvation while singing: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 3

From the Soul
Bearing God in her womb the Virgin hastened to Elizabeth, whose unborn child immediately recognized her greeting and rejoiced. Leaping up as if in song, he cried out to the Mother of God:

Rejoice, O Vine, bearing the unfolding Bloom!
Rejoice, O Land, who bears immortal Fruit!
Rejoice, O you, who cared for the Lover of mankind!
Rejoice, O you, who gave birth to the Giver of life!

Rejoice, O Field, bearing a wealth of compassion!
Rejoice, O Table, laden with gifts of mercy!
Rejoice, for you make Paradise blossom in beauty again!
Rejoice, for you prepare a haven for our souls!

Rejoice, most pleasing Incense of intercession!
Rejoice, Offering for the whole world!
Rejoice, good will of God unto all mankind
Rejoice, Confidence of all before God.

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Joseph, a righteous man, was overcome by doubt and contradiction. He feared that You, all-blameless One, had been deluded by someone until he learned that Your conception was by the power of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph cried out: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 4

From the Soul
The Shepherds heard the angels singing hymns of praise to Christ, who had come to earth in human flesh. They hurried to Him as would the flock to its Master and upon seeing God as the spotless Lamb nurtured from the womb of Mary, they greeted her saying:

Rejoice, Mother of the Lamb and the Shepherd!
Rejoice, Fold of spiritual lambs!
Rejoice, Protection against invisible foes!
Rejoice, Key to the doors of Paradise!

Rejoice, for the heavens rejoice with the earth!
Rejoice, for the earth sings praise with the heavens!
Rejoice, unceasing glory of the Apostles!
Rejoice, unconquerable courage of the Martyrs!

Rejoice, O firm foundation of faith!
Rejoice, O radiant recognition of grace!
Rejoice, O you through whom hell was stripped bare!
Rejoice, O you through whom we are clothed with glory.

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When they saw God's wondrous Star, the Magi followed its glittering light as they would a beacon, in search of a mighty King. And having found Him, they drew near the unapproachable One, rejoicing and exclaiming: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 5

 From the Soul
When the sons of Chaldea beheld in the hands of the Virgin, Him, the Creator, who had fashioned mankind by His own Hand, they recognized in Him their Master, even though He had come as a tiny Babe. And so they hastened to honour Him with gifts and to the greet the most-blessed of all women:

Rejoice, O Mother of the never-setting Star!
Rejoice, O Dawn of the Mystic day!
Rejoice, O you, who quenched the furnace of error,
Rejoice, O you, who guard the disciples of the Holy Trinity!

Rejoice, for you banished from power the merciless tyrant!
Rejoice, for you made manifest Christ the Lord, the Lover of Mankind,
Rejoice, for you have delivered us from pagan worship!
Rejoice, for you freed us from unclean deeds.

Rejoice, O you who suppressed the worship of fire!
Rejoice, O you who quench the flames of the passions!
Rejoice, O Guide of the faithful towards wisdom!
Rejoice, O Joy of all generations!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Having fulfilled Your prophecy, O Lord, the Magi returned to Babylon as God-bearing heralds. They preached to all and witnessed to You as the Christ, leaving Herod behind as a fool, who could not sing: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 6

From the Soul
Illuminating Egypt with the light of Truth, You dispelled the darkness of sin and seduction, O Saviour. The idols of that land fell down, unable to withstand Your power and all who were delivered from them greeted the Mother of God:

Rejoice, elation of mankind!
Rejoice, downfall of the demons!
Rejoice, for you crushed the power of deceit!
Rejoice, for you exposed the fraud of idols!

Rejoice, for like the Red Sea, you have drowned the Pharaoh of duplicity!
Rejoice, for like the rock, you have given drink to those who thirst for life!
Rejoice, Pillar of fire, guiding those in darkness!
Rejoice, Protection of the world, broader that the clouds!

Rejoice, O Successor to manna!
Rejoice, O Servant of the Banquet Divine!
Rejoice, O Promised Land!
Rejoice, Land of milk and honey!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When Simeon was soon to leave this deceitful world, You were brought to him as a Child. Taking You into his arms he recognized You as the true God, and marveling at Your ineffable wisdom, he cried out: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 7

From the Soul
The Creator revealed a new creation when He came down to us, His creation. He came forth from a womb that had received no seed, preserving it intact as it was before, so that seeing this miracle we might sing to the Mother of God:

Rejoice, O Flower of incorruption!
Rejoice, O Garland of purity!
Rejoice, O you, who shine as a sign of the resurrection!
Rejoice, O you, who reveal the life of the angels!

Rejoice, Tree of good fruit from which the faithful feed!
Rejoice, shady Glen where many find shelter!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Saviour of the captives!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Leader for the lost!

Rejoice, Intercessor before the Just Judge!
Rejoice, Forgiveness of many sins!
Rejoice, Hope of the hopeless!
Rejoice, Tenderness beyond all expectations!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Seeing this miraculous birth, let us become strangers to the world and fix our minds on Heaven. Indeed, it is for this reason that the God Most-High appeared on earth: e became a humble man, desiring to draw up to heaven all those who cry out to Him: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 8

 From the Soul
The Word unfathomed was wholly present here below, yet in no way absent from the realm on high. For this was a Divine Descent and not a change of place. His birth was from a Virgin who received God, as she heard these words:

Rejoice, Vessel of the uncontainable God!
Rejoice, Gate of Solemn Mystery!
Rejoice, Unheard Message for unbelievers!
Rejoice, highest Praise of the faithful!

Rejoice, most holy chariot of Him, who rides upon the Cherubim!
Rejoice, most glorious Dwelling of the One above the Seraphim!
Rejoice, O you, who joined opposites!
Rejoice O you, who united virginity and motherhood!

Rejoice, O you, through whom sin was absolved!
Rejoice, O you, through whom paradise was re-opened!
Rejoice, Key to the Kingdom of Christ!
Rejoice, Hope of eternal blessing!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
All the angelic hosts were amazed at Your Incarnation, for they saw God, Whom no one can approach, as a man, approachable by all. He came to dwell among us and He heard from all: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 9

From the Soul
Worldly speakers become mute as fish before you, O Mother of God, for they are at a loss to say how you remained a virgin and yet were able to bear a child. As for us, while marveling at this mystery, we cry out to you with faith:

Rejoice, Vessel of the Wisdom of God!
Rejoice, Treasury of His Providence!
Rejoice, Reproof of foolish philosophers!
Rejoice, for the eloquent become speechless before you!

Rejoice, for the clever have made fools of themselves!
Rejoice, for the myth-makers have been silenced!
Rejoice, for you dispelled the Athenian snares!
Rejoice, for you filled the nets of the fishermen!

Rejoice, O you, who draw us from the depths of ignorance!
Rejoice, O Lamplight of understanding to many!
Rejoice, O Ship, for all who seek salvation!
Rejoice, O Harbour, in the voyage of life!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
Wishing to save the world, the Creator of all came to us as He had promised. Being our God and our Shepherd, out of love for us He took flesh and appeared to all. As man - he called out to all mankind; and as God - he heard from us: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 10

From the Soul
O Virgin, Mother of God, you are the strength of virgins and of all those who take refuge in you. For the Creator of heaven and earth gave you to be our Protectress, O Pure One. He dwelt in your womb and taught all to cry out to you:

Rejoice, Pillar of virginity!
Rejoice, Gate of salvation!
Rejoice, Leader of spiritual renewal!
Rejoice, Bestower of God's grace!

Rejoice, for you restore those conceived in sin!
Rejoice, for you counsel those lost in their understanding!
Rejoice, for you stopped the corrupter of hearts!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Sower of Chastity!

Rejoice, bridal Chamber of a betrothal without seed!
Rejoice, for you joined the faithful to their Lord!
Rejoice, gracious Mother of virgins!
Rejoice, Bridal escort of Holy souls!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
The greatest song of praise cannot compare with the multitude of Your mercies, O Holy King! We could sing to You as many songs as there are grains of sand, and yet do nothing worthy of what You have given to us, who cry out to You: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 11

From the Heart
We see the holy Virgin as a light-bearing lamp, appearing to those who live in darkness. For she is the one who kindled the immaterial Light, and now, she leads all mankind to the knowledge of God. She fills ours minds with radiance and is worthy of being praised in these words:

Rejoice, Ray of the Living Sun!
Rejoice, Radiance, unfading in splendor!
Rejoice, Lightning-flash that enlightens our souls!
Rejoice, Thunder-clap, that strikes down all foes!

Rejoice, for you caused the many-starred Light to dawn,
Rejoice, for you caused the ever-flowing River to spring,
Rejoice, Icon of the baptismal font,
Rejoice, for you wash away the stain of sin!

Rejoice, flowing water, that cleanses the conscience!
Rejoice, holy Vessel, overflowing with joy!
Rejoice, Fragrance of the sweetness Christ!
Rejoice, Life of the Mystical Banquet!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
The Lord, who settles all men's scores, desired to make right the ancient debts by means of grace. He came of His own will to those who had fallen from His grace and He tore up the record of their wrong-doings. From all He hears: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 12

From the Soul
As we sing of Your childbirth, we praise you as the living Temple, O Mother of God. For the Lord, Who holds all things in His Hand made His dwelling in Your womb. He hallowed and He glorified You, teaching all to sing to You:

Rejoice, O Tabernacle of God the Word!
Rejoice, O Holy One, greater than the Holies!
Rejoice, O Ark, made golden by the Spirit!
Rejoice, O inexhaustible Treasury of life!

Rejoice, precious Crown of pious Kings!
Rejoice, sacred glory of reverent priests!
Rejoice, invincible tower of the Church!
Rejoice, indestructible Wall of the kingdom!

Rejoice, O you, through whom Victory is assured!
Rejoice, O you, through whom enemies are cast down!
Rejoice, O Healing of my body!
Rejoice, O Salvation of my soul!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

 

Kontakion
O Mother worthy of all praise;
you who have given birth to the Word,
the Holiest of the Holy,
accept this present offering, deliver us from all affliction,
and save from the future punishment those who cry out to you:
Alleluia!

  

Final Ode

From the Soul
To you, O powerful Queen and Ruler, we sing this song of praise to you, Mother of God. Since you have unconquerable power, protect us from all danger so that we may sing to you: Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

An archangel was sent from Heaven, to greet the Mother of God. And as he saw You, O Lord, assuming human form, he stood rapt in amazement and cried out to her in these words :

Rejoice, O you, though whom joy will shine forth!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Rejoice, O restoration of the fallen Adam!
Rejoice, O redemption of the tears of Eve!

Rejoice, O height, beyond human understanding!
Rejoice, O depth, not fathomed by the angels!
Rejoice, for you are the Throne of the King!
Rejoice, for you carried Him, Who carries all!

Rejoice, O morning star who manifests the Sun!
Rejoice, O womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Rejoice, O you, through whom Creation is renewed!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

 

Prayer to the Mother of God

All: O Most Holy Sovereign Lady and Mother of God, powerful to all good, receive from your unworthy servants this praiseworthy hymn, which is due to you alone, for you have been chosen from among the human race and are higher than all celestial and earthly creatures. For through you, our Almighty Lord has dwelt among us; through you, we have come to know the Son of God and are honoured to have his Most Holy Body and Most Precious Blood. Thus you are blessed among all generations.

You are higher in honour than the Cherubim and beyond compare more glorious that the Seraphim. O most-honourable and most holy Mother of God, do not cease to pray for us today, your unworthy servants, so that we may be protected against the guile of the evil one; from his greediness; and that we be delivered unharmed from the his deadly temptations.

Protect us with your prayer until the end of our life and before the eternal judgment; that we, being saved by your help and intercession, might give glory, praise, thanksgiving and honour for all, to the Holy Trinity, One God and Creator of all creatures, now and always and forever. Amen.

 

Dismissal

Priest: Wisdom!

All: Higher in honour than the Cherubim* and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim.* Who a virgin, gave birth to the Word of God,* you truly are the Mother of God and we praise you!

Priest: Glory to You, Christ God, Our Hope, glory to You!

All: †Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now, and forever, and unto ages of ages. Amen. Lord, have mercy (3). Give the blessing!

Priest: May Christ our True God, through the prayers of his most pure Mother and those all the Saints, have mercy on us and save us, for he is good and the Lover of mankind.

All: Amen.

 

Rejoice Virgin Mary

Rejoice Virgin Mary, Full of Grace!
O Theotokos, the Lord is with you!
Blessed are you among women!
and blessed is the fruit of your womb:
For you have given birth,
to the Saviour of our souls (2).


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Ministry/Outreach; Orthodox Christian; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: marianism; maryworship
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180181-187 next last
To: HarleyD
I think it is in the Bible. "Sin came into the world through one MAN..."

That doesn't say that some sort of "Adamic sin nature" is passed down through the male line. It says that sin came into the world through Adam. That's not the same thing.

Why Adam, and not Eve? It's mysterious, and too long to get into here. Scott Hahn deals with it pretty extensively in his Salvation history tape series, though.

Reformers are just about the only ones (there are a few others) who believe in original sin.

Catholics very definitely believe in original sin. We just don't believe it's what you say it is.

Quite frankly I don't understand why you think a virgin birth was necessary.

Why do you think creation imposes any "necessity" on a sovereign God? No, the Virgin Birth wasn't necessary. In fact, the Incarnation wasn't necessary, either. Nor was Creation itself.

141 posted on 05/04/2004 1:17:19 PM PDT by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 136 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
Sin comes generationally through the father. Unless Mary's father were also born sinless, she could not be

This is the same error Harley is promoting. We simply reject the premise: it's not in the Bible.

142 posted on 05/04/2004 1:19:54 PM PDT by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies]

Comment #143 Removed by Moderator

To: dangus
I was curious so I looked up the word "evil" in the Greek to find out what exactly it is talking about since that is a rather harsh indictment. The word here is pon-ay-ros' and it refers to "essential character, which indicates degeneracy from original virtue". Seems to fit more with "Total Depravity" than with "unsaved".

And, BTW, our Lord Jesus was using this verse to His disciples and it follows right after the Ask, Seek, Knock.
144 posted on 05/04/2004 1:29:28 PM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD
I do think it fits depravity, but in the sense of our fallen nature.

My understanding of TOTAL depravity is that the unsaved person can do nothing good. So plugging that into the verse: "If you, who are depraved, know how to give good..." This would suggest that depravity is not total.

Interesting, although I won't quibble with that denotation of the word, Ponarus is derived from the Greek word for "pain." Keeping in mind the root "salve" ("heal") it's interesting to think of fallenness and salvation as painfulness and healing.

145 posted on 05/04/2004 2:24:26 PM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480
Well, they either get it or they don't. Look, these guys don't even understand the Eucharist, do you espect them to understand Marian devotion? Eucharistic devotion probably has to come first.
146 posted on 05/04/2004 2:29:35 PM PDT by Diva
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 105 | View Replies]

Comment #147 Removed by Moderator

To: Pyro7480
Well, I've been away all day, but, um, all this ground has been covered previously and frankly if they don't get it by now....
148 posted on 05/04/2004 4:31:40 PM PDT by Desdemona (Evil attacks good. Never forget.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 105 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD
I think you have the same sort of problem that Rome has, though in a somewhat different form. Rome maintains the idea of the Immaculate Conception because it seems necessary to remove Christ from Adam's inherited guilt. The Eastern Church, however, has never had need of such doctrine, as it never embraced the Latin idea of inherited guilt with all its particulars. (I will now duck and advance to my real argument!)

I do not think it at all wrong to speak of Christ having sinful nature if by that you mean He was (by choice) beset by weaknesses and temptations and ultimately death. The Scriptures state very explicitly that He became sin for us: not, we may be sure, that He Himself sinned, but that He in some manner truly bore our sin, our sinfulness, right down to our death. Christ became a part of fallen human nature; this is the remarkable thing about it. He did not come as some sort of demi-god who never became weary or never had to eat or drink. He was not unnassailable, and in that fact- that He was truly passible and capable of temptation- His victory over Satan was a true one, waged in human flesh like ours.

He shared fully in our broken, worn-out, enslaved human nature, and by doing so He was able to free us from the bondage in which we were kept. He 'became sin' for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God. He willingly took on the corruption of man so that He might rid us of that corruption. He willingly took on the weakness of a human will so that He might correct it and turn it rightly to God.

Christ did not assume a truly perfect, glorified humanity until after the Resurrection: perfect in the sense of completion, not in the sense of not having sinned. Indeed, the book of Hebrews goes so far as to say that Christ was made perfect by learning obedience (as a man like us). He suffered, then He put on glory.

I hope I don't sound to grating on a small point: it is just that I am convinced of the immense importance of these small points, because they, when taken together to help from our understanding of this Man from Nazareth, compose the Great Point of all human existence and meaning.

Also, I hope that we aren't talking past each other to badly. I suspect I mean something different from 'sin nature' than you, which goes back to the Greek/Latin dichotomy noted above. My primary theological influences are more Greek than Latin.

149 posted on 05/04/2004 8:31:08 PM PDT by Cleburne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
Thanks for your reply.

I would infer that you are opposed to any organized religion.

May I ask if you belong to a church? If so, which?
150 posted on 05/04/2004 10:23:06 PM PDT by D-fendr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD
Those who don't believe in sola scriptura simply listen to what others would have them believe.

Who would have you believe in sola scriptura?

151 posted on 05/05/2004 12:07:45 AM PDT by D-fendr (^_^)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr
"Who would have you believe in sola scriptura?

There's a vast difference from someone telling me they don't have all the answers and that I should look to the scriptures then another person saying listen to him and he'll tell me what the Bible says.

152 posted on 05/05/2004 12:40:32 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD
There's a vast difference between telling someone to look to the scriptures and "sola scriptura."

Unless, you're equating the two?

So, I should ask: What does sola scriptura mean?

153 posted on 05/05/2004 12:54:22 AM PDT by D-fendr (^_^)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: Cleburne
I try to carefully read the Catholic and Orthodox's posts because I do think there are slight nuances that each of us hold that alway seems to come out sounding wrong.

I'm a very strong believer and always have been in man's sinful nature. I'm not sure how the virgin birth worked but I'm convinced it was absolutely necessary for our Lord Jesus to be born apart from the race of men so as not to be tainted with our nature. I don't think it's any coincidence that Paul said:

1Co 15:45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

To me our Lord Jesus, in His humanity, was another Adam. (He was also God as well.) Adam, as we know from Genesis, still ate and slept and he didn't know God's thoughts. He was certainly no demi-god. We can also see these traits in our Lord Jesus who would eat, was weary and occassionally say, "Only the Father's know...". And just like the first Adam, the second Adam also had a task to perform for the Father.

But, this time this Adam didn't sin for the 33 years that He was on earth and all the temptations Satan and man could throw at him. And in His utter perfection, unmarred by man's sinful nature and guiltless before God, He was able to bear our sins. A perfect lamb who, knowing no sin, was willing to accept the sins of the world. But for Him to willingly take on the corruption of man so that He might rid us of that corruption, He had to have no corruption.

The virgin birth is far more than a story of what a wonderful person Mary was and Jesus more than one of us. The virgin birth was the ONLY way God could bring about the salvation of man through a second Adam, our Lord Jesus.


154 posted on 05/05/2004 1:38:48 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr
"So, I should ask: What does sola scriptura mean?"

I assume from your question you are asking why listen to anyone but just read the Bible. Protestants would say to study the founders' traditions but measure that against the Bible. Catholics says that the Bible is a part of the tradition and to look to that tradition.

I'm being very succient and, as we know, there is far more involved in this then my statement. But since this is a post on Mary and the virgin birth and not on sola scriptura we'll save this for another day.

155 posted on 05/05/2004 2:58:45 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr
I would infer that you are opposed to any organized religion.

Not at all. I'm not sure what would give you that impression.

May I ask if you belong to a church? If so, which?

Presbyterian.

156 posted on 05/05/2004 5:37:06 AM PDT by topcat54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD
If Mary did not have original sin there would have been no need for a virgin birth since it would mean original sin must be picked up some other way besides birth. Consequently, our Lord Jesus could have just been born the normal fashion and not have original sin. No need for the virgin birth.

There still would have been a need for a human birth, because if Christ was conceived naturally by Mary and Joseph, he would not have been divine. He would have been a natural human, nothing more.

Christ's conception was the moment when the hypostatic union came into being--a single person with two natures, human and divine. Mary provided the human nature, the Holy Spirit provided the divine nature.

Which, I think actually argues for the immaculate conception of Mary. Or else you're in the uncomfortable position of thinking that the Holy Spirit merged his divine nature with a human nature tainted with original sin. It's hard enough to fathom God condescending to take on flesh--but sinful flesh?

157 posted on 05/05/2004 10:12:30 AM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Claud
"It's hard enough to fathom God condescending to take on flesh--but sinful flesh?"

As I stated earlier I have no idea how the virgin birth took place nor does anyone else. At least not from the inspired word of God. There is much in the Bible that's hard to fathom-including God becoming man to take away our sins. All I know is that it's dangerous to be persumptuous.

158 posted on 05/05/2004 10:28:32 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: Claud
Which, I think actually argues for the immaculate conception of Mary. Or else you're in the uncomfortable position of thinking that the Holy Spirit merged his divine nature with a human nature tainted with original sin. It's hard enough to fathom God condescending to take on flesh--but sinful flesh?

You seem to be thinking the Holy Spirit bedded Mary. She conceived of Him but there is no biblical mention of her being without sin in any sense of the phrase. I suspect it wasn't her egg either as I posted earlier.

159 posted on 05/05/2004 10:34:32 AM PDT by biblewonk (No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk; dangus; sartorius
You seem to be thinking the Holy Spirit bedded Mary.

Goodness no, not at all. Sex in the human framework is totally out of the picture. I meant solely in terms of conception.

I suspect it wasn't her egg either as I posted earlier.

I know this is a subject far beyond any of our humble intellects, but I think we can make a few tentative logical steps. Let's tease your suspicion out a bit. Say Mary's flesh (i.e. egg) was not used in the conception of Christ. We know Christ was fully human, and we know he had human flesh. So where did He get it? Well, I guess that first cell of His Holy Body would have had to be created ex nihilo (i.e. out of thin air) by God in Mary's womb. If so, then how is Christ said, properly, to be a member of the human race? He certainly would be of human *form* but he wouldn't have been descended from Adam or Abraham or David. The natural link to the family of man gets severed the instant you have God create Christ's body from scratch.

Biblically also, I don't think this idea is supportable. Creation ex nihilo is generally described in Genesis by the word "create" (Lat. creare, Heb. bara). But here as dangus brilliantly pointed out earlier Luke's account reads "you shall conceive (Greek syllempsei) in your womb...a child". YOU shall conceive--the second person is quite definite there. And the same word root (syllambano) is used of Elizabeth, though my Greek isn't good enough to pick out all the tense/voice/mood differences. A wording more consistent with your theory would be something like "HE shall create/implant/fashion in your womb", with a different subject and a different verb. Even "He shall conceive in your womb" would be more favorable to your reading, but that's not what the text says.

Again though, we have to be cautious about mixing normal human reproduction into this picture. Obviously the Holy Spirit is bodiless, and the conception would have been supernaturally (not naturally) effected. The mystery, IMHO, is not *that* such a thing happened, it is *how*. That we may never know :)

160 posted on 05/06/2004 5:33:06 PM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180181-187 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson