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PATRIARCH’S PARDON: Vartholomaios forgives Catholics for sack of Constantinople in 1204
ekathimerini.com ^ | Wednesday April 14, 2004 | ekathimerini.com

Posted on 04/14/2004 10:44:45 AM PDT by Destro

Wednesday April 14, 2004

PATRIARCH’S PARDON

Vartholomaios forgives Catholics for sack of Constantinople in 1204

Ecumenical Patriarch Vartholomaios yesterday forgave Catholics for the 1204 sack of Constantinople by crusaders from the Fourth Crusade during a liturgy in Istanbul marking the 800th anniversary of the event and attended by Cardinal Philippe Barbarin, Archbishop of Lyon. “We cannot forget that tragic day for Constantinople and for our Patriarchate but we forgive... and we accept with satisfaction the expression of their regret and the reassurance that the West will never again undertake such an abomination against the Christians of the East,” Vartholomaios said. “It is a fact that a great sin was committed against Constantinople 800 years ago,” Cardinal Barbarin said.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: balkans; catholiclist; constantinople; crusade
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1 posted on 04/14/2004 10:44:45 AM PDT by Destro
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To: *balkans
bump
2 posted on 04/14/2004 10:45:00 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
Well since we're forgiving each other for historical grievances I think Catholics need to do a little bit of forgiving too.

On behalf of the Catholics here I would like to say that we forgive our Eastern brethren for all of the horrible things they have done throughout the years, but especially for....

- 378 AD loosing the Battle of Adrianople which led to the downfall of the Western Roman Empire
- 410 AD Complete inaction when Alaric and his Visigoth Army sacked Rome
- 476 AD Doing absolutely nothing when Odoacer deposed the last Western Emperor, Romulus Augustus.

Now when I remember some more of the evil things our Eastern brethren have done I'll be sure to post it

>)
3 posted on 04/14/2004 11:07:36 AM PDT by FBDinNJ
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To: FBDinNJ
* Romulus Augustulus
4 posted on 04/14/2004 11:09:25 AM PDT by FBDinNJ
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To: Destro
"We cannot forget that tragic day for Constantinople and for our Patriarchate but we forgive... and we accept with satisfaction the expression of their regret and the reassurance that the West will never again undertake such an abomination against the Christians of the East", Vartholomaios said. "It is a fact that a great sin was committed against Constantinople 800 years ago,"

This sounds less like an apology and more like a condemnation.

5 posted on 04/14/2004 11:29:37 AM PDT by Between the Lines
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To: Romulus
Seems we've been forgiven for the "rescue mission" ...
6 posted on 04/14/2004 1:36:21 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: eastsider
OK, but we're still not giving back the bronze horses 'n' loot 'n' stuff.
7 posted on 04/14/2004 1:43:42 PM PDT by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: eastsider
?It is a fact that a great sin was committed against Constantinople 800 years ago,? Cardinal Barbarin said.

Putting one in mind of what Pasquino said when Pope Urban VIII (Maffeo Barberini) summarily stripped the gilded bronze sheathing from the portico of the Pantheon: "Quod non fecerunt barbari, fecit Barberini."

8 posted on 04/14/2004 1:48:17 PM PDT by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: narses; Land of the Irish; NYer; Salvation
Fourth Crusade ping
9 posted on 04/14/2004 1:53:42 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: Destro
I don't understand why this is an issue. Everyone involved in these incidents died 750 years ago. Catholics today don't bear collective guilt and they don't need to be "forgiven" for this "sin" by anyone.

And the word of the Lord came to me, saying: What is the meaning? That you use among you this parable as a proverb in the land of Israel, saying: The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the teeth of the children are set on edge. As I live, saith the Lord God, this parable shall be no more to you a proverb in Israel. Behold all souls are mine: as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, the same shall die. (Ezechiel 18.1-4)
10 posted on 04/14/2004 1:55:25 PM PDT by gbcdoj (in mundo pressuram habetis, sed confidite, ego vici mundum)
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
ping: Looky here...don't we feel better now?
11 posted on 04/14/2004 4:13:36 PM PDT by Polycarp IV (PRO-LIFE orthodox Catholic--without exception, without compromise, without apology. Any questions?)
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To: FBDinNJ
Your history is flawed. There was no division of the Church in those eras and those battles and causes for those battle were of secular origin. The Crusades was a Pope inspired and blessed army of Catholics.
12 posted on 04/14/2004 4:35:19 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Romulus
Not returning the Shroud of "Turin"?
13 posted on 04/14/2004 4:36:07 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: gbcdoj
You can still hold a body responsible - the individualCatholics are long dead but their church continues and still holds those looted relics (Shroud of Turin being one of many).
14 posted on 04/14/2004 4:37:34 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: .45MAN; AAABEST; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; Annie03; Antoninus; ...
Patriarch Accepts Apology From the Pope

The Associated Press

Istanbul, Apr. 14--(AP) Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians, has accepted an apology from Pope John Paul II for Roman Catholic involvement in the sacking of Constantinople 800 years ago.

During a visit to Greece in 2001, John Paul apologized for the attack on the city, today's Istanbul, which was looted by Catholic Crusaders. The apology had long been sought by Orthodox.
In a speech Tuesday--the 800th anniversary of the city's capture--Bartholomew formally accepted the apology. "The spirit of reconciliation is stronger than hatred," Bartholomew said during a liturgy, attended by Philippe Barbarin, the Archbishop of Lyon, France. "We receive with gratitude and respect your cordial gesture for the tragic events of the Fourth Crusade."

Bartholomew said his acceptance came in the spirit of Easter. "The spirit of reconciliation of the resurrection ... incites us toward reconciliation of our churches," the patriarch said.

Bartholomew and John Paul have both emphasized reconciliation between the two churches, split since 1054. "It is a fact that a crime was committed here in the city 800 years ago," Barbarin said.

In his 2001 apology, John Paul said he would ask for God's forgiveness for "sins of action and omission" by Roman Catholics against Orthodox Christians, including "painful memories" of the Crusades--such as the April 13, 1204 sacking of Constantinople. The city was subject to three days of looting, in which many of the city's treasures were taken or destroyed.

The Greek Orthodox Byzantine Empire ultimately collapsed when the Muslim Ottoman Turks conquered the city in 1453, but the Patriarchate remained. Bartholomew is considered "first among equals" among Orthodox patriarchs and directly controls several Greek Orthodox churches around the world, including the Archdiocese of America.
15 posted on 04/14/2004 5:05:21 PM PDT by Polycarp IV (PRO-LIFE orthodox Catholic--without exception, without compromise, without apology. Any questions?)
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To: Romulus
I say we should give it all back to help with the restoration of the Hagia Sofia. The prerequisite of this, of course, is that or eastern brothers need to retake Byzantium from the Muslims and be able to hold onto it.
16 posted on 04/14/2004 5:15:37 PM PDT by Flying Circus
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To: Destro
That's good. Now let's all get ready to square off and face our joint historic enemy: Islam.
17 posted on 04/14/2004 5:23:24 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius
Let us see what Christian king arises that will lead a united Christendom into battle.
18 posted on 04/14/2004 5:38:28 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
Not returning the Shroud of "Turin"?

Probably not.

And I get the feeling St. Mark will be staying in Venice.
19 posted on 04/14/2004 5:41:17 PM PDT by Desdemona (Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.)
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To: Polycarp IV
Has JP II apologized to the Lutherans, Huegenots, Anglicans, etc. for the wars fought to reunite Christianity?

This Pope has more pressing issues to deal with than this garbage...the Russian Orthodox still won't let him visit Russia.
20 posted on 04/14/2004 5:51:30 PM PDT by Tuco Ramirez (Ideas have consequences.)
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