New rules on the Holy Eucharist on Holy Thursday

Catholic Herald ^ | 03/15/2004 | Luke Coppen

[sinkspur]

But with the Novus Ordo it's the other way around--it's the most reverent who can't stand remaining a second longer than necessary

That's nonsense, and you know it.

[sinkspur]

And, sinkspur, I normally attend an indult mass where NOBODY EVER leaves early or engages in sloppy irreverent behavior.

Good for you. Leave the Novus Ordo to those who wish to worship there.

You can't do that, though, of course. You've got to trash the Mass I prefer, though I don't do that to you.

This is the kind of thing that the "new rules" of the religion forum was supposed to prevent.

[AnAmericanMother]

It was Judas, who left immediately after Holy Communion at the very First Mass. He had serious business to take care of.

oooo! Great line! I'm gonna mention that to our priest when I see an opening. (I bet he's not thrilled about folks making the turn from the altar and just heading straight out the door . . . )

[cebadams]

	Mathew Chapter 23
1	Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
2	Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
3	All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not.
4	For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men's shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them.
5	And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes.
6	And they love the first places at feasts, and the first chairs in the synagogues,
7	And salutations in the market place, and to be called by men, Rabbi.

[heyheyhey]

Thank you for the beautiful selection of quotations.

The first promotes active participation, the second says, the vernacular language is to be used, and the third explains the Church has no wish to impose a rigid uniformity in matters which do not implicate the faith or the good of the whole community.

Your quotes from Sacrosanctum Concilium plus mine in post #12 together prove that whoever thinks the Second Vatican Council gave local bishops the authority to adapt the liturgy in illicit manner has never read or understood the profoundly insightful documents.

[kosta50]

I thank God that He vouchsafed me to find the Orthodox Church, where worship meet to the Creator is still offered

Amen to that! There is none like it! But, in all fairness, the traditional Catholic Mass was a very dignified and beautiful service. Too bad, it has all come down to clapping and chewing gum, never mind taking a communion without confession!

And, to our Catholic friends, leaving the service before it ends is very wrong.

[kosta50]

No ban on female altar servers however a statement that this is not a universal requirement

Don't have anything handy to back this up with, but I remember reading soemwhere that the early Church allowed altar girls. Again, some confirmationof that would be helpful.

That is not an attack on priesthood. It is understood that the Church does not have the authority to ordain women.

[Desdemona]

Many rush out the door because they can't stand the Mass itself.

This doesn't happen everywhere. Around here, people stay until either the priest is down the aisle or the singing is done. And this is a city famous for people leaving an inning early to beat the traffic.

[Desdemona]

I'm far more concerned with the language than any kind of gestures. Most of them, as they are practiced right now smack of affected drama and triteness. Also, it would be nice to have far more silence than we get.

[Maximilian]

Your quotes from Sacrosanctum Concilium plus mine in post #12 together prove that whoever thinks the Second Vatican Council gave local bishops the authority to adapt the liturgy in illicit manner has never read or understood the profoundly insightful documents.

Of course they didn't give them permission to adapt the liturgy in an "illicit manner" because that would be a contradiction in terms, since what they specified would from then on be de facto "licit" rather than "illicit." But they clearly gave them permission to adapt the Mass in all kinds of various ways. These quotations give the local bishops and/or bishops' conferences permission to:
1. Encourage "participation" of all sorts with no limits specified. This is basically carte blanche to do anything they want at Mass.
2. Make their own decision on the vernacular, left up to the bishops' conferences. So again these decisions are left to their judgement and initiative. And even worse, the fact that the decision is made by a conference and not by an individual bishop means the bureaucrats are in charge. There is no way you can deny that this has been the reality since Vatican II. Nor is it a mystery how it happened.
3. To "inculturate" the Mass. This means that each region can decide what parts of the local culture are not in contradiction to the faith. So if the American bishops decide that our local culture is Elvis Presley, and they decide that Elvis Presley is perfectly consistent with the new concept of the post Vatican II Mass, then they can have an "Elvis Mass." Same concept with every other area of the world.

[Maximilian]

It is getting near time to head to the local indult Tridentine Mass.

Yes it is. It may be later than you think.

[Maximilian]

The abuses of the NO are the problem. The shepherdless Church is the problem. If the NO were conducted as it is supposed to be, the Amchurch freak would not recognize it.

I think you need to do some more research on the New Mass and its creation. The New Mass was always designed to be a continual work in progress. It is impossible that there could ever be a New Mass "the way it's supposed to be." The New Mass is supposed to be different every time it is said. That's the way it was created.

The liberals are actually right about this point when they say that they represent the "spirit of the New Mass." They do. And they should since they created it. They know what it's spirit is. And it was never designed to be similar to the traditional Catholic Mass. If it were, they never would have needed to create a new one.

Before the Amchurchers get their panties in a bunch, I have to say that I know the Pope is a holy man, and that he is under the special guidance of the Holy Spirit and that he is the valid Vicar of Christ, but, for some reason, he sits and watches the wolves eat the sheep in God's sheepfold.

What gives you this idea? He has been 110% behind Vatican II since day one of his reign. He was clearly a liberal candidate and was not even supported by his own primate in Poland, Cardinal Wyszynski. There is a good reason that the hierarchy is filled with virtually 100% liberals. Remember that you can count the number of bishops not appointed by JPII on your hands. He has selected the entire hierarchy worldwide. Whatever they are, they reflect the vision of the person who selected each and every one of them.

[.45MAN]

ping

[dsc]

"This is the kind of thing that the "new rules" of the religion forum was supposed to prevent."

Fiddle-faddle, balderdash, and rot.

You've been trying to get rules established to prohibit any critical discussion of the Modernist Heresy as it manifests in Amchurch, but so far you haven't been successful.

As infuriating as it is for you, people are still allowed to express opinions and beliefs contrary to yours, and even to come right out and say that they believe you to be wrong.

[GoBoks]

Hi All,

I'm new on here, so be gentle!!

First, Great thread .... How any person can accept Communion without absolutely trembling in reverence is beyond me! This is the Body of Christ, we should be on our knees before him.

One thing which I was taught is that a Catholic is obedient to the Church and loyal to the Magesterium. Anyone who is not, and is trying to "change" the Church to fit their own notions of how the Church should be, is not a Catholic in my opinion!

I have long been an advocate of only receiving the Sacred Host. It makes me shudder to see how some EEM's wave the Precious Blood around .... I have seen people be more careful with a glass of coke. GRRRRRRRRR

Finally, with Lent well underway, please Prayerfully consider pledging your Prayers for the Holy Souls in Purgatory at http://www.MTEP.com (Mission To Empty Purgatory)

God Bless You,
Steve