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Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
I have, you like your swarm buddys were not here all the time to know what I was standing up against, beside you calvinists are far worse then the likes of ET.
BigMack
Many non-Christian/non-Jews might say so...
But I would think "God said so" pretty much defines the morality of the subject.
Are you new here?
Mack stands up to everybody - regardless of whether they agree with him or not.
Didn't say that God compelled them to obey the Covenant. Just said that He was the one who chose them to be His people.
SD
From my prespective I see things right the opposite. I wish there were more non-believers hanging out here to hear the "word" over and over and just maybe some of it might sink in. It really bothers me though when people we are working with have other Christians come in and tell them they are either in or out depending on whether God enie, minied them to Hell or Heaven before they were created. Why should they care about accepting Christ if told their future decided a long time ago?
Real nice message.
SD
Proverbs 13:
[24] He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.
When the medical director became aware of Edna's heroic act, he immediately ordered her to be discharged from the hospital, as he now considered her to be mentally stable. When he went to tell Edna the news, he said, "Edna I have good news and bad news. The good news is you're being discharged; since you were able to rationally respond to a crisis by jumping in and saving the life of another patient, I have concluded that your act displays sound mindedness.
The bad news is, Jim, the patient you saved, hung himself with his bathrobe belt in the bathroom. I am sorry, but he's dead." Edna replied, "He didn't hang himself, I put him there to dry. How soon did you say I can go home?"
Does this include yourself? Just curious.
We have just the opposite problem in the Presbyterian church. We have former Southern Baptists and Methodists who didn't pay attention in communicants class.
When the minister preaches the uncompromised Word of God as contained in the Bible, they get mad. They say want a more "warm and fuzzy feeling" when they go to church.
I left the Methodist Church (UMC) and became a Presbyterian after I had actually read the Bible, not just selected passages. Reformed theology made sense to me and followed what is printed in the Bible.
IMHO, the Methodist churches that I attended really didn't teach much theology. Just nice stories.
This "cancer" as you call it will spread as long as people study all of God's Word.
Yo mama. I haven't rejected the Gospel. I just believe the same one that the 70 went out and preached before it became exclusively all about death and ressurection. Remember? The kingdom? With David on the throne?
I use the original stick from "The Quiet Man" that John Wayne was given "to beat the pretty lady with".
You think perhaps God was speaking figuratively when He instituted circumcision? Or is it that "God said so" isn't good enough for you?
SD
Can you fly? Can you not sin? Can you live forever? Will you live one more second than the life God has allotted to you?
I understand your questions about "what good does it do you to believe that God's sovereignty trumps human free will?" I imagine just about every Calvinist started out as an Arminian of some sort and asked that same question. I did. Most of the Calvinists I know did -- "What good does it do, when during the day it feels like our choices are limitless?"
But you're correct in sensing this is the wrong question. If our lives are truly God's creation, and if God is truly God who loves us, then we actually CAN understand something of this reality. And if God has given us this perception, there must be some good in it.
And there is. Spectacularly.
The good that comes from knowing God is in complete control is that I actually believe the 23rd Psalm. The Lord really is my Shepherd. I really do not want for anything, secure that the Father will not forsake His children; that Christ's sacrifice was complete and saved me fully and for all time; and that for those who love God and follow Christ, there is no fear of death.
Calvinists "roll out of bed in the morning" and work to bring fruit to the fields and glory to His name because He told us to. He said if we love Him, we will do this in His name. Those who love Him, can do no less.
It sounds well and good to say, like so many have always said, "we struggle to have our will be God's." Of course it feels that way. But can the clay say to the Potter, why have you made me thus? That Scripture means something. Every breathe every human being takes in and exhales is God's will. That is the over-riding reality which trumps all our "feelings," and thanks to God's mercy, we actually ARE able to have some comprehension of this apparent mystery.
...comforting thought, but it is an insult to the gift of awareness He has given us.
You position this "gift of awareness" as greater than God Himself. I firmly believe my "awareness" that He is God and I am not, surpasses any "awareness" that I am unfettered by His will.
I understand your questions. "What good comes from believing this?"
The good is simple. Unlike so many, who say that unless the bushman or the imbecile or the week-old baby "is blessed by the Church," or "makes a public statement of faith," or "hears the word and believes," I know that salvation depends on God's mercy alone, and not on ANYTHING anyone might do to achieve it.
I know that none of us knows the names of the elect. But from Scripture, God's inspired Word, I know the wheat and tares look alike until the harvest. I know the thief on the cross received his faith as he gasped his last breath. But I know that the name of the thief had been written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world, and thus, I know that NOTHING could erase his name. He was a lowly, sinful thief whose empty life was ending in pain and fear. But as he died, he was regenerated. His heart was reborn by faith in Christ as God, and he believed. He did not come to this conclusion on his own. It was an "awareness" that was thrust upon him. He could do nothing else, but exclaim Christ's divinity on the same day he entered Paradise.
But you and I are so much more fortunate than the thief. We've read Scripture with the Holy Ghost as our page-turner, and we KNOW we've been saved by the redeeming blood of Christ ALREADY. We've been shown the words that say clearly to our brains "Relax, and know that I am God."
"But now, thus says the Lord, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: 'Fear not, for I have redeemed you: I have called you by name, you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through the fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.'" - Isaiah 43:1-3.
How much clearer does the "comfort" need to be?
Our faith is an outward sign of our redemption; not a ticket to purchase our redemption. Christ PAID the price. We ARE His. And EVERYHING we understand about our lives must come from this singular awareness.
If it's God's will, it already is, and has always been, and will forever be.
Or else He's not God. He's a nice old man in a white beard. He's Santa Claus.
Say I bet you would be interested in this really nice piece of land I have for sale, just give me a call and we can work out the details.
BigMack
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