(Albany)Bishop's foes, backers clash at forum

Times Union ^ | February 23, 2004 | Mike Goodwin

[NYer]

Albany -- Meeting hosted by conservative church group enlivened by accusations, confrontations

The author of a series of 1991 articles critical of Bishop Howard Hubbard's leadership of the Albany Roman Catholic Diocese identified a priest, who died Feb. 15 under unclear circumstances after being linked to allegations of homosexuality against the bishop, as a "close collaborator" for his stories.

"He became my guide for 'Agony in Albany,' " Paul Likoudis said Sunday, describing the Rev. John Minkler as a primary source for his series in The Wanderer, a Minnesota-based weekly Catholic newspaper that questioned Hubbard's leadership.

"That work had my name on it," Likoudis said. "But it really was his work." Likoudis said that as he prepared articles, he would frequently read passages over the phone to Minkler for approval.

Likoudis made his comments at a contentious meeting of the Illinois-based Roman Catholic Faithful, a conservative theological group, at the Crowne Plaza in downtown Albany.

Minkler, 57, was found dead at his 2319 Seventh St. home in Watervliet by his sister just days after he was publicly identified as the author of a 1995 letter to then-New York Archbishop John O'Connor that accused Hubbard of homosexual behavior and theological transgressions.

A police report said Patricia Minkler called police for help with an attempted suicide, but so far authorities have not been able to determine a specific cause of death.

Hubbard has denied breaking his vow of celibacy and last week hired former U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White to investigate the allegations. White, who expects to charge more than $700 per hour for her work, is being paid by the diocese.

Likoudis also called for Hubbard's resignation at Sunday's meeting, a demand that was later echoed by Stephen G. Brady, president of Roman Catholic Faithful and host of the event.

"The ultimate goal is to bring about positive change in the diocese, and I don't think that's possible without the removal of the bishop," Brady told reporters.

At least 200 people crammed into a ballroom at the State Street hotel, many frequently breaking into applause during Likoudis' speech. But he and Brady were repeatedly interrupted by Hubbard supporters, who claim the men are conservative religious zealots bent on destroying Hubbard.

"You're stealing our church," Troy resident Shirley O'Neil shouted at Likoudis from a microphone in the center of the ballroom as another woman stepped to the microphone and tried to talk over O'Neil.

Cathy Toedt, holding a purple sign that declared "We Believe Our Bishop," called the meeting "a disgrace."

"They're breeding hatred," the Colonie woman said as she stood outside the ballroom. "We don't need outsiders coming in and telling us what to do about our bishop."

Diocese spokesman Ken Goldfarb said Roman Catholic Faithful "has been after the bishop and other bishops around the country."

"The question is: Have they provided evidence to support any of their claims."

Brady said he is scheduled to meet with White this morning.

He said he does not question her willingness to investigate Hubbard and the diocese, but he said the fact that the diocese is paying for the investigation will make many people unwilling to be candid about wrongdoing by the bishop.

Two days before his death, Minkler signed a statement for the Albany Diocese disavowing authorship of the letter to O'Connor, but some have questioned whether Minkler was pressured to sign by church officials.

Likoudis said he spoke by phone to Minkler later that day and the priest "seemed a bit rattled." Likoudis said he urged the priest to go public with the letter. "Just spill your guts," Likoudis said he advised Minkler. "Let the whole thing out."

"If I do that, I'll be dead," he claimed Minkler told him.

[NYer]

Marybeth Pallack, left, of Niskayuna and Annette LaBrie of Alplaus argue as Shirley O'Neil of Troy speaks in support of Bishop Howard Hubbard at a Roman Catholic Faithful meeting in Albany on Sunday, Feb. 23. (Philip Kamrass / Times Union)

This is the confrontatin that took place. The woman on the right is the one who initially stepped up to the microphone to read a statement. When Paul Likoudis told her they were taking questions, the woman with her back to the camera went over and said to her "Go away!" When that didn't work, the woman on the left jumped into the fray.

[NYer]

And here is yet another perspective on last night's meeting.

RELATED THREADS:

REPORT FROM RCF MEETING - ALBANY NY - Feb. 22, 2004
(Albany) Catholics clash during discussions of bishop (Hubbard)

[Salvation]

BTTT!

[NYer]

Hubbard has denied breaking his vow of celibacy and last week hired former U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White to investigate the allegations. White, who expects to charge more than $700 per hour for her work, is being paid by the diocese.

According to Agony In Albany, written by Paul Likoudis for The Wanderer,

"A number of those lay people told The Wandererethat Bishop Hubbard is highly sensitive about his public image, and extraordinarily vindictive to those who publicly question his actions (or inaction, as is often the case), his motives, and his orthodoxy.

This series of articles was published in 1991. It is now 13 years later, Hubbard is still in office and @ $770/hour, still very particular about him image.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

That picture says it all.

[american colleen]

... as Shirley O'Neil speaks in support of Howard Hubbard...

OK so I do this google search (you can't do $h&# anymore with google watching you!) and I come up with a Shirley O'Neil from Troy who is co-director of some religious program where you join as a lay-person but live with a daily dimention of spirituality to your life - no vows or anything. An alternative to vocations, they say.

And the pay dirt is that Shirl was a Sister of St. Joseph nun for a while! LOL! Why could we have guessed that?

Just in case anyone wants the link.

[johnb2004]

"You're stealing our church," Troy resident Shirley O'Neil shouted

More lies from the arrogant left wing. It is not her Church. It is our Lord's Church and we are part of the mystical body of Christ. Such lefty lies.

[B Knotts]

OK so I do this google search (you can't do $h&# anymore with google watching you!) and I come up with a Shirley O'Neil from Troy who is co-director of some religious program where you join as a lay-person but live with a daily dimention of spirituality to your life - no vows or anything. An alternative to vocations, they say.

And the pay dirt is that Shirl was a Sister of St. Joseph nun for a while! LOL! Why could we have guessed that?

But of course.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

"You're stealing our church,"

Revealing comment. Along with the one about why don't you start you own Church. What seems to be going on is you have people with bizarre emotional problems defining their faith in terms of their peculiar sexual orientation issues. They view Hubbard as their special advocate. And their Church as something which they own.

[B Knotts]

Did you notice the article noted that she was a teacher for 30 years? Imagine the claptrap she's been poisoning kids' minds with all that time.

I frankly wouldn't be the least surprised if she worked at a Catholic school. :-(

[NYer]

And the pay dirt is that Shirl was a Sister of St. Joseph nun for a while!

Colleen - you are astounding!! I would never have thought to look up her name. Just amazing.

As for the Sisters of St. Joseph, the order's Provincial House is just down the block from me. They host all sorts of odd events there. Mercifully, their ranks are shrinking.

[johnb2004]

Bingo. Emotional troubles are often the central issue with people like this. The homosexual agenda is a religion to them. That is how they define themselves. It is always about their needs.

They do have an advocate to Hubbard.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The "act up" antics, trying to take over meetings,protests, and liturgies, like a bunch of keystone stormtroopers, just makes them look foolish, silly, kooky, and semi-psychotic. Out of touch with reality, hell-bent on forcing their agenda on other people, they can be a real nuisance. Some Catholic institutions are almost completely dominated by such types.

What's a laugh is they helped call more attention to the meeting staged by Likoudis and Brady. No doubt The Wanderer ought to be able to milk this to pick up more subscriptions. The lurid images of kooky liberals trying to shout down an investigation into what is going on in Albany....classic! And an ex-nun, too. Better than St. Bozo's clown Mass parish which the NOR used to use as an ad for subscriptions.

[american colleen]

I went to the pro marriage rally in Boston a couple of weeks ago. Truth be told, I didn't know what to expect because this is such a volatile issue here at the moment.

As God is my judge, the rally people (maybe 3K) were quiet and happy and in unison - there was a feeling of "this is bigger than us" but the protesters were obnoxious - trying to drown out the speakers, loud yelling and walking around blocking people's views with large signs. These past few weeks have been telling as well... in discussions concerning homosexual marriage with people the ones on the side of the "status quo" are respectful and fact telling and considerate while the homosexual marriage advocates really get all worked up about it - escalating voices and stopping the discussion, name calling, etc. What was funny and worth contemplating is that the most vocal protesters (the "other" side) at that rally would stop and walk away if a crucifix or rosary beads were held up.

[johnb2004]

It is all so true. Why would someone outside the faith want to convert when they see so much of the Church in America is dominated by kooky leftists? Where is rome?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Good question. Not sure what explains the situation in Rome and what certainly seems like a lack of responsiveness to a grave situation.

Lay Catholics need to be more organized and issue a statement of standards for Catholic life in America. That should cover liturgy, education, and standards of conduct for clergy. They should only support and fund bishops, dioceses, and schools which meet those standards. Where there is no orthodoxy and no respect for the faith or the faithful, there is no real "Church" sadly. When you have mentally disturbed liberals rise to positions of power and authority where funds are used primarily to pursue some private non-Catholic agenda, you are really no longer even dealing with the "Catholic Church" at all but some sort of weird heretical cult.

[johnb2004]

Very well put.

Our Lady of Akita,
Pray For Us.

[american colleen]

Lay Catholics need to be more organized and issue a statement of standards for Catholic life in America.

So tricky... there are tons of orthodox Catholic groups and magazines and publishers - would that at least some of them would join forces and thereby make a louder noise... but it seems orthodox Catholics are wary of organizing into groups like CTA or VOTF - funny that they get so many loud members. OTOH... I read somewhere that NCReporter places job ads in the back of their magazine... and most of those jobs are placed by chanceries or schools with open positions... everything is in place and has been in place for the progressive spirit of vat II types for a long time.

[johnb2004]

"I read somewhere that NCReporter places job ads in the back of their magazine... and most of those jobs are placed by chanceries or schools with open positions.."

I never knew that! Just when I think I could not be shocked I read this. What a terrible mess.

[american colleen]

"Catholic" weekly endorse same-sex unions
The National Catholic Reporter has come out with an editorial in favor of the Massachusetts court ruling calling for legal recognition of same-sex "marriage." The Reporter sees this decision as a "beneficial step along the path of human understanding and human rights."

If you look beyond the editorial, to the back pages that carry the classified ads, you'll see that American bishops routinely advertise in the Reporter when they plan to hire people for diocesan posts.

So the bishops are staffing their chanceries with people who read-- and, presumably, as a rule agree with-- the Reporter's editorials.

Suddenly it all comes into focus, doesn't it?

Posted by:
Phil Lawler

Feb. 19, 2004
5:51 PM EST

Add A Comment
Plick -- There is a parallel indeed. Protestant "reformers" of the 1500's recognized widespread abuses in the Church, but were impatient for healing from within, some rejecting magisterial authority altogether. One connection between then and now is the time lag between crisis and response. It seemed to take a long time before Catholics for a Free Choice was publicly renounced. All "Catholic" organizations, activists and publications should be similarly evaluated, then approved or condemned
Posted by:
LouisIX

Feb. 22, 2004
6:29 PM EST
Dear LouisIX,
I personally prefer to define "sin" in terms of "self" rather than other. It is the safer way to go. I certainly believe that the "protestant reformation" can be viewed as a response to papal indifference regarding gross abuses of power by the bishops of that time in regard to the selling of indulgences and in fact "Church authority" in general. Perhaps you notice a vague similarity to the present situation? We need to own our own guilt.

Posted by:
John J Plick

Feb. 21, 2004
12:12 PM EST
Although, I will say that the link between reading editorials and reading ads isn't absolute. I stopped reading the National Catholic *Register's* editorials after they threw in their lot with the corrupt establishment against Michael Rose. But I continued to read the ads until the subscription ran out. Nice ads.
Posted by:
WF

Feb. 20, 2004
10:08 PM EST
How can they use the word "Catholic" in their name?
Posted by:
Kate

Feb. 20, 2004
8:53 PM EST
What is so sad to me is that while these Humanists are doing there damage there is a Priest who I consider a hero very ill and near death, at 87 he has fought the good fight faithfuly and never waivered nor worried over threats of any kind only to stay true to our faith. Now I look for that next priest who is corrageous enough to live by the vows he took . They are few and far between but they are there. Look for those few good men and support them as much as you can we must save what is left.
Posted by:
JD56

Feb. 20, 2004
8:52 PM EST
[i]Suddenly it all comes into focus, doesn't it?[/i]
Through a glass, clearly.

Posted by:
Pseudodionysius

Feb. 20, 2004
1:07 PM EST
Is there no regulatory office headquartered at the Vatican that monitors self-described Catholic publications? Or do they publish what they please and function autonomously? Protestant rebellion did irreparable harm decades before the Council of Trent convened in the sixteenth century. How much will it take for Church authorities to sit up, take notice and respond?
Posted by:
LouisIX

Feb. 20, 2004
12:20 PM EST
The most pathetic aspect of this kind of thinking is that promoting such a "beneficial step along the path of human understanding and human rights" is what the modern Catholic Church has made its most important mission. The "cult of man" has replaced the "cult of God" and so the people are godless and mankind debases itself more and more with each passing day. Love God for His own sake with every fiber of your being. Then love your neighbor as yourself. This isn't such a hard concept.
Posted by:
Minidoc

Feb. 20, 2004
8:48 AM EST
NCR is the publication that ran a contest to discern the appropriate new Jesus for the third milennium. The old one being too passe and paleo, don't you know. And the winnuh was...a very androgenous black woman. Worldwide hubbub over this lasted, oh maybe thirty seconds. No, ten. Maybe less. But the point is, the foks who put this thing together are still there.
Posted by:
normnuke

Feb. 19, 2004
11:50 PM EST
There's a certain serenity to be had in praying for your bishop while not paying him. I've appreciated the annual diocesan appeal much more the past couple of years knowing from the beginning that I'm not giving anything, and that I'm joined by numerous others. I suspect one of the things they won't be doing is buying ads from NCR--there's just not enough money coming in. I suppose the MTV ads for vocations will get nixed, too. AHHHH what a refreshing feeling...
Posted by:
WF

Feb. 19, 2004
10:44 PM EST
that is horrible -- wish it were not so
Posted by:
ted

Feb. 19, 2004
8:16 PM EST
The episcopacy, with only a paltry few exceptions, and too many of the priests of their generation, are corrupt beyong anyone's worst imaginings. Forget them; certainly don't perpetuate their infidelity by contributing monetarily even to your own parish. The whole enterprise has been reduced to professional begging.
One's salvation lies elsewhere. Embrace any of the faithful movements that are the future of a vastly diminished Church.