'Passion' Debate Risks Alienating Christian Allies

'Passion' Debate Risks Alienating Christian Allies By SARA LISS PALM BEACH, Fla. — Standing before a room full of Anti-Defamation League leaders at the Italian Renaissance-style Majestic Breakers hotel here, Rabbi Robert Levine appeared to be preaching to the converted as he tore into Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ."

But then Levine, the religious leader of Congregation Rodeph Shalom in Manhattan and one of the featured speakers on a February 6 panel discussion about the controversial film, criticized the evangelical Christian community over its outspoken praise of Gibson's cinematic depiction of the final hours of Jesus's life.

"Segments of the Jewish community for several years have basked in the love of evangelicals and their support for Israel," Levine said, during a question-and-answer session at the ADL's national executive conference. "I'm afraid this will serve as a wake-up call to the Jewish community as to who our friends really are."

The remark drew a quick response from the ADL's national director, Abraham Foxman, who had just delivered a speech condemning the film.

"Many in the evangelical community are reaching out at this moment," Foxman told the 300-person crowd. "They are concerned about the relationships they have built, that they are proud of. Their love of Israel is not tied to this issue."

Foxman may seem like an unlikely candidate to stick up for Gibson's allies. But Foxman's rush to quash any talk of a wider break with evangelicals highlights an awkward development facing Jewish leaders as they speak out against the film: The conservative Christian leaders and pundits hailing the movie are also among the loudest voices in defense of

Many of these Christian luminaries have strongly condemned Islamic and European antisemitism, but reject concerns that Gibson's film could revive millennia-old charges of deicide against the Jewish people. This sentiment was conveyed in an open letter to the Jewish community released last week by William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, a conservative group that speaks out on many social issues. He argued that fears over American Christian reaction to the film are unfair, since this country has virtually no history of violence against Jews.

"If the movie is likely to engender violence, then we should expect that when people finish watching it, they will be in a rage," Donohue wrote. "But no one who has seen the film has experienced anything like anger."

Critics of the film counter that it could fuel anti-Jewish hatred in the Arab world, where the crucifixion increasingly has been employed as a metaphor for the suffering of Palestinians at the hands of Israel.

Still, Foxman seemed to defend some conservative supporters of the film, arguing that they were starting to reach out to Jewish groups.

"I am not ready to abandon them, and I don't [think] they're abandoning us because we challenge on of their interests," Foxman said during an interview during a lunch break at the conference. "They are concerned about the relationships they have built, that they are proud of. Their love of Israel is not tied to this issue."

Foxman announced that two evangelical leaders, Franklin Graham, chief executive officer of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, and political activist Gary Bauer, a Republican candidate for president in 2000, are assisting the ADL in efforts to ensure that the movie is not misinterpreted or misused as an antisemitic tool.

Jewish communal leaders, including Foxman, have suggested that Gibson add a short disclaimer to the end of the movie stating that the Jews did not kill Jesus — but so far both Gibson and his company Icon Productions have not responded to the idea.

In his speech, Foxman told the crowd that he is not satisfied by the news that Gibson has decided to cut a controversial scene in which a mob of Jews call for Jesus' crucifixion.

"He's playing with the public, he's playing with the issue," Foxman told this reporter. "It would make the film more sensitive, but it will take more than removing one scene to make this film sensitive." The significance of cutting the scene was downplayed by another speaker at the ADL conference, the Rev. John Pawlikowski, director of Catholic-Jewish studies at Chicago's Catholic Theological Union. During the conference, Pawlikowski also dubbed the film's script "problematic," and said Gibson cannot claim that his depiction of the story adheres to the Catholic Church's guidelines for passion plays.

"The changes don't mean anything unless the fundamental theme is changed," Pawlikowski said. "Gibson has to acknowledge that the Jews didn't kill Christ."

Meanwhile, in his open letter, Donohue argued that it is the film's critics who need to display a higher level of understanding.

"Please understand that many Christians deeply resent the kinds of movies Hollywood has been releasing over the last few decades," Donohue wrote. He added, "Now that they finally have a film they can be proud of, some are calling them bigots, if not thugs. Christian-Jewish relations have improved markedly over the past few decades, and in this regard no one has been more influential than Pope John Paul II. It would not only be unfortunate — it would be a travesty — if the reaction to a film about the death of Jesus were to undo the good that has been done. I pray it will not."

I've been surprised by the name calling here! Christians are the Jews bestest friends, yet some of the Jews here at FR are flat out hostile to our faith.

When your faith makes accusations against members of my faith -- accusations that you cannot prove -- naturally that makes me hostile. Why is that difficult to understand?

Does being a Christian mean that you can make accusations without having to produce evidence?

If you want to produce evidence that the Jews actually killed Jesus, you can begin by showing me where in the Gospels it says what year this crime occurred. If you cannot provide this basic fact, then you Christians should stop making this unsupported accusation against the Jews.

Why doesn't Gibson make it really sensitive so that Jesus didn't die on the cross after all? In fact, let's rewrite the New Testament so Foxman isn't offended.

Actually, the idiot's opposition is fueling ticket sales so we should be grateful.

Act 3:12 And when Peter saw [it], he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Fight the Scriptures. We Christians love the the Hebrews because they are are forefathers. If you want more evidence that the Jews killed Jesus Christ I can give you that according to the Scriptures. But alas, there was also a killer sprititually.

I beleive everyone should do there homework when it comes to this deep issue for believers and un-believers.

I beleive with all my heart and soul that Jesus Christ is The Son of GOD and that we are all responsible for his death Jews included..Now that being said I also did research on some sites looking up there views on the criteria for an awaited Jewish Messiah. These are some of the problems I came up with and cannot find any difinitve answers..So Inyokern here's some homework for you..

1. Many of the predictions from the TANAKH from a Jewish Perspective collide with the 2nd coming of Christ.
2. There is no difinitve answer from a Jewish perspective why they discount every Messianic prediction from ISAIAH?
3.From a Jewish perspective, they believe Messiah will return from an observation ie: Israel commits to a closer relationship with G-d such as Sabbath etc. Or when the world is totally lost)Which it already is)
4. The Messiah will be a Jewish human being that will bring Peace to Israel and Peace among nations, war will cease to exsist,no more pain suffering.( How is this going to happen? how will non-jews recognize him as an annointed one? how will he prevent being killed? after all he is just human with no divinity?)

There is no in-depth information regarding this human Messiah that will inhabit the earth, Many questions I have proposed to Rabbi's without substansial evidence.

A Rabbi suggested to me that only Gentiles need to obey Noachide Laws to be a part of G-d's Kingdom..I asked him where is G-d kingdom? and if all I have to do is obey pretty much common sense laws that enable people to live in a civilized society, then I guess I have NO RELIGION? NO RELATIONSHIP WITH G-D.. No Bible as a guide for life no prayers...He has not answered my question regarding this topic..Maybe INYOKERN will...

You have made us stand in defense of our Religion, Now I am asking you to defend with proof the questions I have proposed to you about your beliefs?

More specifically, Catholics and Baptists have been the Jews' best friends among Christians. Those two denominations seem to me to be the most excited about seeing this film. Coincidence?

While I couldn't say for sure that this is an absolute statement, I've seen nothing that would put that statement in disagreement.

I don't think it is a coincidence. We're excited because we see the potential of what God can do through this film, and we're friends and defenders of the Jews because we know that they are God's chosen people.

When your faith makes accusations against members of my faith -- accusations that you cannot prove -- naturally that makes me hostile.

Defensive I can understand. Other Jews on FR have been defensive of their beliefs, but you are alone in the intensity and quantity of your hostility. That ought to make you stop and think.

Does being a Christian mean that you can make accusations without having to produce evidence?

Evidently you haven't read all my posts, nor have you answered all my questions. You claim to know things I believe which I have never indicated. Do you mind if I try and clarify what most Christians believe, for you?

We believe that the Jews are God's chosen people and that they, and they alone, hold a special place in God's heart.

We believe that Jesus willingly died as our blood sacrifice for the atonement of our sins, as part of God's master plan to bring His people back into fellowship with Him.

We believe that Jesus willingly chose to give up His life in obedience to God's plan. We believe that He could have chosen not to follow that plan, and that He could have stopped this process at any point up until he cried, "Tetelestai!" (It is finished!) and breathed His last breath.

We don't believe that the Jews killed Christ (see above), per se. We believe that some Jews were instrumental in God's plan to place Him on the cross, but no, they did not KILL Him.

We believe that we all people - Jews, gentiles, believers, non-believers, you know, all - bear responsibility for Jesus death on the cross. We do not believe that the Jews, and the Jews alone, were responsible for Jesus death. Nor do we believe it was the Romans and some Jews alone who was responsible (again, see above).

We believe that we, individually, are as culpable in the death of Christ as Ciaphis, Pilate, or anyone else.

We believe that the quote, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!" is a prophetic statement speaking to His atoning blood which provides forgiveness of our sins. We claim that this verse applies to us, as well as to the Jews.

Now, what exactly in these beliefs causes you to be hostile to our faith? Why do you attack the very people who are considered the best friends Israel has?

I challenge you to find one single post, anywhere, where I have made statements that were in opposition to these beliefs stated above.

We do not attack you for not believing in what we believe. Why do you attack us for not believing in what you believe?

Why exactly are you hostile? Why do you slander our faith and men of our faith? Where does the hate come from?

Defensive I can understand. Other Jews on FR have been defensive of their beliefs, but you are alone in the intensity and quantity of your hostility. That ought to make you stop and think.

Most Jews never read the New Testament. I have. All the slanderous accusations in there make my blood boil. I particularly like the part where it says my father is the devil.

We believe that some Jews were instrumental in God's plan to place Him on the cross

Prove it. What year did do the Gospels claim the Jews did this? What testimony is there to prove this, other than the testimony of a bitter man like Matthew, a publican who was excommunicated and shunned by Jews because of his profession?

Prove it.

You're asking me to "prove" my beliefs? Unreal. I believe what I believe. Can you prove that I don't believe this?

I noticed that you did not address a single statement of belief that I listed above. Could it be that you don't really care what we believe, you just want to agitate and instigate? Most of the time on FR, we call that trolling.

You have a hatred of Christians which is unhealthy. It's unhealthy for you and it's unhealthy for your jewish brothers. Hatred consumes the soul. If all Jews had this same consuming hatred that you have, then they wouldn't want our friendship, our defense, our kinship. Thankfully you're out there alone in your beliefs and hatred.

Most Jews never read the New Testament. I have. All the slanderous accusations in there make my blood boil. I particularly like the part where it says my father is the devil.

No, the Gospel calls satan the father of lies. 'Nuff said.

You find in the Scriptures where God says the Romans killed Jesus Christ.

In Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John it is recorded that the Roman Procurator, Pontius Pilate, had the authority to sentence Jesus to cruxifiction. He didn't have to, he had Roman soldiers to put down any riot, but he gave in.

And it was his Roman soldiers that scourged Jesus and then took Him to the place called Golgatha. And it was Roman soldiers that nailed Him to that cross. It was Jesus who gave up His spirit and willingly died there for all our sins.

Scripture says that many people will claim to be the Messiah. The anti-Christ will rule for 3 1/2 years in the
Temple that will be rebuilt on the Mt. of Olives where the Dome of the Rock mosque is now. He will bring peace but then all hell will break lose so to speak. There will be great wars and then the great battle at Armageddon in the northern plains of Israel.

You see Inyokern if you were taught about the Prophets and the Messiah (Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jermehiah)you might actually believe in the Messiah.

Inyokern can you answer this?

If Jesus was not the Messiah, then how in the world did He ever heal the deaf, the blind, the lame, and bring people back from the dead and forgive sin? How did he come back to life after He was dead 3 days and how did He show Himself to over 500 people and raise Himself up into Heaven.?

He said that He would be back like He left, coming in the clouds so every eye on the earth will see Him? The anti-christ won't be able to pull that one off!

What is your Messiah going to be like; where will he be born; how will he come; what will his name be, etc.
I have spoken to many of my Jewish friends and they just can't answer these questions. MAYBE YOU CAN.. either you know the answer (Jesus really was the Messiah and just can't admit it, or you just don't know. I try to get the proof out to all about our Messiah. I don't rely on blind faith. Faith is very important in both the OT and the NT. Don't get me wrong. Without faith, we go nowhere and will be deceived! We have to be willing to look or seek. If you will seek, you will find! That's a promise.It is our job, though, to make disciples of all nations. That means friends, family, neighbors, and EVERYONE. It's a big job

Most Jews never read the New Testament. I have. All the slanderous accusations in there make my blood boil. I particularly like the part where it says my father is the devil.

Does it bother you that Jesus and his apostles were Jewish also? Maybe that really offends you, because you might consider them heretics Jews that caused a lot of problems and should never have been born.

As to the "my father is the devil" comment, I suggest you read John Chapter 8 again Woman caught in adultery. You'll notice that Jesus was addressing a specific group of pharisees who apparently had no problem with stoning an alleged adultress to death. It is notable that the Law would have also required the male to be stoned, but the male is conspiciously absent. Read the whole chapter again, if you want to be fair, and note the context. Jesus was a Jew, himself, and he certainly wasn't calling all Jews demonic seed. He had a thing about religious hypocrites, which should be a point in his favor to you.:)

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