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You continue to fail to get my point, which I guess you were predestined to do, so there's nothing I can do about it. And you're clearly a troll, in the Slashdot sense of the word, as your silly assertion that I'm simply arguing from John 3:16 demonstrates.

Unlike you, I readily admit that I do not have the qualifications to whip out my Bibles and have a conclusive debate about Calvinism. My gosh I don't even have an informed and secure position, because I find Scripture heady and challenging and, at times, paradoxical (and yet not contradictory). Granted, I am skeptical of Calvinism as I also am of Arminianism, seeing them as two ends of a paradoxical spectrum. But I won't bother to debate with you, because doing so would solve nothing: in the end it would leave people far more intelligent and qualified than either of us in disagreement on the issue.

Besides, the primary reason for my participation in this thread has not been to challenge your doctrine at all, it has been to challenge your attitude. And it's quite clear that I have failed to move you in any regard on that matter.

If you are indeed correct, than I can only hope I am included among the elect so that I can pat you on the back in heaven and thank you for your faithfulness---and hear your apology for your pride.

mcg1969 to Game Cock ***And you're clearly a troll***

As the initiator of the thread, I welcome GC's presence here and comments. You are welcome as well. I can identify with your uncertainty between Calvinism and Arminianism (been there).

The study of Scripture and reading what Calvinists say (as opposed to caricatures of Calvinism) moved me from Arminianism to Calvinism (the 4 point variety).

And you're clearly a troll

I know my position, you on the otherhand are clueless:

My gosh I don't even have an informed and secure position

And you call me a troll????

But I won't bother to debate with you, because doing so would solve nothing: in the end it would leave people far more intelligent and qualified than either of us in disagreement on the issue.

BWAHHAA, speak for yourself! I've seen a lot of pride on both sides of the debate, but never pride about total ignorance.

FYI, Every Calvinist I know, both here in the virtual world and real life, was once an Arminian. (myself included) Only when they could let go of the pop-psych "I'm a good person!" mantra did they come to grips with the Doctrines of Grace. One day, when God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, lifts the scales from your eyes, you will be see what a sinner you really are, how every fiber of your being is sinful, how in your natuaral state you wanted nothing of God. Then, and only then, will you understand what we Calvinists are talking about.

it has been to challenge your attitude

What, that I am a sinner? You want to expose that I don't deserve one iota of the Grace God has given me? That I am a wretch and in my fallen state wanted nothing to do with a Holy God? I confess that every night, and you accuse me of being prideful? I thank God that he did not leave me to my precious free will!

That my friend, is what Calvinism is all about.