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HOLDING HANDS AT THE OUR FATHER?
ZENIT ^ | 18 NOV. 2003 | A ZENIT DAILY DISPATCH

Posted on 11/21/2003 8:07:52 AM PST by franky

Question:

One Holy Apostolic Church with the emphasis on"One"

Why is it that the current parish I go to has the Our Father and hand shaking "peace" while the last one I had, did not.

In my youth during my excursions I would go to Mass and the only thing different was the vernacular of the country or ethnic balance of the parish.

Even some of the vestments are different today.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Prayer; Theology
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 11/21/2003 8:07:53 AM PST by franky
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To: franky
Sorry. Here is the article

ROME, 18 NOV. 2003 (ZENIT).

Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical Athenaeum.

Q: Many say we should not be holding hands in the congregation while reciting the Lord's Prayer because it is not a community prayer but a prayer to "Our Father." Local priests say that since the Vatican has not specifically addressed it, then we are free to do as we please: either hold hands or not. What is the true Roman Catholic way in which to recite the Lord's Prayer during Mass? — T.P., Milford, Maine

A: It is true that there is no prescribed posture for the hands during the Our Father and that, so far at least, neither the Holy See nor the U.S. bishops' conference has officially addressed it.

The argument from silence is not very strong, however, because while there is no particular difficulty in a couple, family or a small group spontaneously holding hands during the Our Father, a problem arises when the entire assembly is expected or obliged to do so.

The process for introducing any new rite or gesture into the liturgy in a stable or even binding manner is already contemplated in liturgical law. This process entails a two-thirds majority vote in the bishops' conference and the go-ahead from the Holy See before any change may take effect.

Thus, if neither the bishops' conference nor the Holy See has seen fit to prescribe any posture for the recitation of the Our Father, it hardly behooves any lesser authority to impose a novel gesture not required by liturgical law and expect the faithful to follow their decrees.

While there are no directions as to the posture of the faithful, the rubrics clearly direct the priest and any concelebrants to pray the Our Father with hands extended — so they at least should not hold hands.

One could argue that holding hands expresses the family union of the Church. But our singing or reciting the prayer in unison already expresses this element.

The act of holding hands usually emphasizes group or personal unity from the human or physical point of view and is thus more typical of the spontaneity of small groups. Hence it does not always transfer well into the context of larger gatherings where some people feel uncomfortable and a bit imposed upon when doing so.

The use of this practice during the Our Father could detract and distract from the prayer's God-directed sense of adoration and petition, as explained in Nos. 2777-2865 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in favor of a more horizontal and merely human meaning.

For all of these reasons, no one should have any qualms about not participating in this gesture if disinclined to do so. They will be simply following the universal customs of the Church, and should not be accused of being a cause of disharmony.

A different case is the practice in which some people adopt the "orantes" posture during the Our Father, praying like the priest, with hands extended.

In some countries, Italy, for example, the Holy See has granted the bishops' request to allow anyone who wishes to adopt this posture during the Our Father. Usually about a third to one-half of the assembled faithful choose to do so.

Despite appearances, this gesture is not, strictly speaking, a case of the laity trying to usurp priestly functions.

The Our Father is the prayer of the entire assembly and not a priestly or presidential prayer. In fact, it is perhaps the only case when the rubrics direct the priest to pray with arms extended in a prayer that he does not say alone or only with other priests. Therefore, in the case of the Our Father, the orantes posture expresses the prayer directed to God by his children.

The U.S. bishops' conference debated a proposal by some bishops to allow the use of the orantes posture while discussing the "American Adaptations to the General Instruction to the Roman Missal" last year. Some bishops even argued that it was the best way of ridding the country of holding hands. The proposal failed to garner the required two-thirds majority of votes, however, and was dropped from the agenda. ZE03111822
2 posted on 11/21/2003 8:12:21 AM PST by franky
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To: franky
Ain't gonna do it.

Ain't gonna, and can't nobody but the Pope make me.
3 posted on 11/21/2003 8:30:43 AM PST by dsc
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To: franky
Despite appearances, this gesture (the orabs) is not, strictly speaking, a case of the laity trying to usurp priestly functions

"Despite appearances", well it looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, I tend to think it is a duck.

4 posted on 11/21/2003 8:43:10 AM PST by NeoCaveman (An official knuckle-dragging Neanderthal right wing turkey)
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To: franky
In my parish those of us who refuse to hold hands are labeled inhospitable or unfriendly.
5 posted on 11/21/2003 9:05:47 AM PST by rogator
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To: dsc
Even the pope couldn't make me.
6 posted on 11/21/2003 9:49:49 AM PST by sydney smith
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To: franky; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; ...
For all of these reasons, no one should have any qualms about not participating in this gesture if disinclined to do so.

The use of double negatives in this sentence is very misleading. Holding hands during the Our Father is a liturgical abuse

5.2  Holding Hands during the Our Father

Holding hands during the Our Father has become commonplace, but it is an illicit addition to the Liturgy. Clarifications and Interpretations of the GIRM ["Notitiae" Vol. XI (1975) p. 226] explains:

". . .holding hands is a sign of intimacy and not reconciliation, and as such disrupts the flow of the Sacramental signs in the Mass which leads to the Sacramental sign of intimacy with Christ and our neighbor, Holy Communion." 

Is Your Mass Valid? Liturgical Abuse - This is a MUST BOOKMARK site!

7 posted on 11/21/2003 11:32:24 AM PST by NYer ("Close your ears to the whisperings of hell and bravely oppose its onslaughts." ---St Clare Assisi)
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To: rogator
In my parish those of us who refuse to hold hands are labeled inhospitable or unfriendly.

In my old parish, it was the same way. But that was St. Francis Xavier in Greenwich Village, and I was not about to worry about what people thought about me there. No telling where some of those hands have been...

8 posted on 11/21/2003 11:34:33 AM PST by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: NYer
My intuition tells me that the holding hands thing is an attempt to normalize "change from below," just as papal acceptance of female altar servers followed the institution of female altar servers in fact in various churches. I include parish "mission statements" in this category. The goal of the promoters of this stuff is the institution of female "priests." Look for them in the near future.
9 posted on 11/21/2003 12:23:38 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
I believe I heard Fr. Groeschel comment on EWTN that holding hands during the Lord's Prayer is an offshoot of AA meetings. OR.....could the AA custom have started from Catholics who learned it in church? H'mmmm.......

Fr. Groeschel was not in favor of the practice in church, by the way.

For the time being, my husband and I continue to quietly hold hands, but no longer extend them to others unless they "insist."

10 posted on 11/21/2003 12:42:54 PM PST by trustandhope
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To: trustandhope
I believe I heard Fr. Groeschel comment on EWTN that holding hands during the Lord's Prayer is an offshoot of AA meetings.

Lol ... and how would Fr. Groeschel know ;-D? (just kidding)

Welcome to the Religion Forum!!

11 posted on 11/21/2003 12:50:44 PM PST by NYer ("Close your ears to the whisperings of hell and bravely oppose its onslaughts." ---St Clare Assisi)
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To: franky
This is a good example of legalism in the church. Go to the bible and read the text when Jesus Christ gives an answer on how to pray. You see it is so simple when you read the bible. You do need man to tell you how to pray, where to pray! If people would understand what Jesus talked about being against , traditions of man. If you took the time to research the catholic religion you would sadily see how they are more into there traditions, than into teaching truely what the Holy Bible teaches! Also if a catholic is reading this, ask Our Lord and Savior to remove any blinders from your inner man, your soul. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal only God's truths to you. The bible is clear when it states, "You have not because you ask not". Missionary David Galindo
12 posted on 11/21/2003 2:19:34 PM PST by ibtheman
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To: ibtheman
This is a good example of legalism in the church...

This is a good example of misunderstanding Catholic practices.

When a community comes together to worship and pray, the liturgy provides guidelines or rules for the community to follow. It would make no sense for 500 people to all do their own thing, now does it?

And don't even get me started on "traditions of man." If you want that, go join a Protestant church.

Yes, I am feeling cranky today.
13 posted on 11/21/2003 2:27:37 PM PST by polemikos
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To: ibtheman
If you took the time to research the catholic religion you would sadily see how they are more into there traditions, than into teaching truely what the Holy Bible teaches!

What do you mean? Could you cite some examples?

14 posted on 11/21/2003 5:33:03 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: ibtheman
“Matthew 6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

Catholics know this verse as well as any bible believing church.

“If people would understand what Jesus talked about being against , traditions of man.”

You will have to define that statement???

“If you took the time to research the catholic religion you would sadily see how they are more into there traditions, than into teaching truely what the Holy Bible teaches!"

All Catholic tradition is based on the scriptures. The Seven Sacraments are biblical. The Corporal Works of Mercy are biblical. The Spiritual Works of Mercy are biblical.

The corporal works of mercy:
· To feed the hungry;
· To give drink to the thirsty;
· To clothe the naked;
· To harbour the harbourless;
· To visit the sick;
· To ransom the captive;
· To bury the dead.

The spiritual works of mercy are:
· To instruct the ignorant;
· To counsel the doubtful;
· To admonish sinners;
· To bear wrongs patiently;
· To forgive offences willingly;
· To comfort the afflicted;
· To pray for the living and the dead.

If any of the forgoing Catholic teaching disturbs you then you really do not know the Catholic Church.

I will include you in my prayers tonight. I pray to Our Lord for wisdom every night.

Come Holy Spirit, fill the heart of David and kindle in him the fire of Your love. Sent forth Your Truth and You shall renew him.



15 posted on 11/21/2003 7:31:48 PM PST by franky
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To: rogator
In your parish those who hold hands during the Our Father, or any other part of the Mass, are violating the Sacramental structure of the Mass, violating the rubrics, violating the GIRM and participating in an illicit act.
16 posted on 11/22/2003 11:13:55 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
I agree.
17 posted on 11/22/2003 1:03:20 PM PST by rogator
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To: rogator
those of us who refuse to hold hands are labeled inhospitable or unfriendly.

"Inhospitable and unfriendly" is the way I always try to react to liturgical abuse.

18 posted on 07/29/2007 6:58:59 AM PDT by ducdriver ("Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance." GKC)
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