In the beginning was Calvinism

unknown | Steve Schlissel

[Gamecock]

An interesting read from our Messianic friends:

The Synagogue of Christ by Steve Schlissel Messianic Jewish pastor Messiah's Congregation, Brooklyn, New York.

The church wasn't born at Pentecost. It was Bar Mitzvah'd. No small matter, this. The church had a long, albeit dotted, history by the time the Spirit in Christ's fullness fell, and a glorious, albeit difficult, future. By Pentecost, the church, because of its history, its providentially-ordained organization and the Holy Spirit's promised guidance, was well-prepared to fulfill its function in the world.

The Belgic Confession, in Article XXVII, states, "We believe and profess one catholic or universal Church...This Church has been from the beginning of the world, and will be to the end thereof..." It has not, however, always had the same form. In the Garden of Eden God identified and separated the church (then consisting of two) using the essential elements, Word and Sacrament, Promise and Token, which would be present throughout the church's history, in some form or another. Our first parents were created to understand themselves and all things else in terms of a word. They had received the defining Word of God; they had heard the anti-word of the serpent. Choosing the devil's definitions, they had broken covenant with their Creator and entered into league with the destroyer, becoming co-pretenders with him to the throne.

God was not about to forsake His purposes, or to quickly formulate a "Plan B." He graciously and forcefully took back Adam and Eve-He redeemed them-by placing hostility between them and their new master (the Antithesis), by promising in their hearing the incarnation of the conquering, suffering Messiah (the Protevangelium, first proclamation of the Gospel), and by clothing them with God-provided coverings (the "Sacrament"), indicating in the clearest terms that their fig leaves (their instinctive effort at self-atonement/covering) were wholly inadequate and unacceptable. It is God who saves. Calvinism did not originate in Geneva; it is found in Eden. God's people, the covenant line, would henceforth be the people redeemed by Him to live, once again, in terms of His Word.

Calvinists are not the "church" founded by John Knox in Scotland. Knox founded no "church", but a Denomination. We are not the "church" founded by the Protestant Reformers. The Reformers founded no "church", but a Reformation. We are not the "church" founded by the Popes at Rome. No "pope" has founded any "church", just a (false) Administration. We are not the "church" founded by the Apostles at Pentecost. The Apostles founded no "church", but a Dispensation. We are not the "church" founded by Moses at Sinai. Moses founded no "church", but a covenanted Theonomic Congregation.

Calvinists are the Church founded by God in the very Garden of Eden. We are the Covenant Line of God's People, redeemed by Him to live in terms of His Word. We have stood the test of Time. And the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against us.

[CCWoody]

lizbet just wanted to jump on our thread, have a little hissie fit, and move on. We see it often. What will be even more funny is when she figures out that her theological spiritual forefather was a liar who intentionally deceived people in order to cause problems in the church.

Woody.

[dangus]

First, believe me: none of these guys had icons, or were into "oneness."
Secondly: You will read in the OT about how the Jews were *commanded* to construct statues of serpents, cherubs, seraphs, etc. Snake-bite victims in Exodus were even ordered to present themselves before a serpentine statue. This was not idolatry because it was understood that the origin of the healing was ultimately YHWH.

[CARepubGal]

Usually we use snakes as a sure criteria (the ones who play with serpents and bark like dogs are the wackos).... ;-) I wonder what his "throne is" um on second thought, I do NOT need that information! ;-) Pope is a rather ambitious place to start for Michael.......

[dangus]

Yeah, but if you start off only as a monsignor, who's gonna promote you? I mean look at poor Qhadaffy; 30 years a supreme dictator of his country and he still can't get himself promoted beyond "Colenol."

[Gamecock]

The various protestant churches are divided in doctrine, authority AND worship; and are united only in what they deny.

You seem to forget that we agree on the essentials:

Doctrine: Saved by faith in Christ alone.

Authority: Christ

The Pope, well, I'll leave that open to interpretation, based on the evidence posted below:. ;-)

Here we see one of the Popes being blessed by a Hindu woman. Isn't Mary enough?

A fav among Proddies, kissing the Koran:

With behavior like this, there is no wonder that the RC church is so fragmented!

[drstevej]

Pope Piel I

The Pocket Fisher of Men

   

[Gamecock]

[CARepubGal]

Good point. That is a problem when self prepetuating. heck, Pope is more innocuous than "Prophet Seer and revelator" ;-)

[CARepubGal]

Greetings Your Fishiness.

[dangus]

I could defend the pope, I could see why many were offended by his actions. Doesn't matter. Again, you miss the point. It doesn't matter if the Pope joined Christine Aguilera and Slobodan Milosevic in a three-way. Catholics would be sad, even disgusted, but they'd all know what the true doctrine is. And so would anyone else.

Doctrine: Saved by Grace, as manifested in faith and in works

Authority: Christ

It's amazing how you just can't accept that some simple truths:

Calvinists: You worship Mary
RCs: No we don't
Yes you do
No we don't

Calvinists: You believe the Pope is Christ
RCs: No we don't
Yes you do
No we don't

Calvinists: You believe in salvation through works
RCS: No we don't
Yes you do
No we don't

[dangus]

OK, I won't call myself that anymore. :)

[CARepubGal]

LOL! ;-) You know, Pope Piel I (pocket fisherman) might find your talents useful.....

[Gamecock]

LOL!

[Gamecock]

OK, explain to me one more time, where does the RC church get it's authority?

[dangus]

OK, (I don't know how much of this is already common knowledge):

The antipopes were French (mostly); Pope Peil is pronounced, "Pop-eye" in French. The logo of the free-masons is the Eye of God (the Father). Or to put it simply, "Pop Eye." You get where I'm going with this...

Think "olive oil"... paying people on one day for meat you partake in on the day before... "Sweet pea, swee'pea, sweepy, sleepy..."

Is this making any sense to you?
Really?
Wow...

[CARepubGal]

Umm this is getting wierder.

[dangus]

Well, its *temporal* authority comes from the Pope. But that's not necessarily any more just than the Emperors, or a given President. Some day, some Pope might find mandatory celibacy to be evil... who knows? But I wouldn't hold my breath. We are commanded to give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's, but we may still dissent from Ceasar as Simon Zealots did. LIkewise, we nay dissent from the Pope, as the Jesuits did.

It's *eternal*, *infallible* authority comes from the scripture, as intrepreted by a consensus of the bishops. This consensus can be arrived at through an ecumenical council, or found to exist by the Pope. This authority, in turn, comes from the working of the Holy Spirit, which protects the Church from fallacy, and which has spoken through the apostles who saw fit to record as scripture those words of Christ which vested the Church with that authority.

[dangus]

When it all becomes clear to you, you will see all...

It may just *look* like a rubber-wallpapered room, with a little slot under the door to slide your food tray in with.

[mdmathis6]

Are you familiar with a verse in Proverbs that says..."The locusts have no king, yet they march out in bands, laying waste...". This observation puzzled Solomon who couldn't figure out how such creatures behaved in such an orderly fashion.

The church is like that, only it is the Holy Spirit that gives it its mission. The church is that Body of beleivers that has existed across time and eternity joined to Christ. Beleivers who truly have repented and have asked forgiveness exist in all denominations and creeds. What attracts a believer to a church is more out of a sense of calling and conscience. I would never dare state that all Catholics have it wrong....nor should any Catholic dare to state that all Protestants have it wrong! Christ dwells in a temple unbuilt by human hands. We are living stones that make up his church..his temple. The church is as small as two men gathered in Christ's name and as large as the billions who have been a part of it from the beginning of time. The church is a transtemporal reality...a bulwark against which the likes of Hell shall not prevail.

It is not that all Catholics are all wrong...its just that some of them think of the "church" on too small of scale! The Church was always bigger than Rome!

[mdmathis6]

Are you familiar with a verse in Proverbs that says..."The locusts have no king, yet they march out in bands, laying waste...". This observation puzzled Solomon who couldn't figure out how such creatures behaved in such an orderly fashion.

The church is like that, only it is the Holy Spirit that gives it its mission. The church is that Body of beleivers that has existed across time and eternity joined to Christ. Beleivers who truly have repented and have asked forgiveness exist in all denominations and creeds. What attracts a believer to a church is more out of a sense of calling and conscience. I would never dare state that all Catholics have it wrong....nor should any Catholic dare to state that all Protestants have it wrong! Christ dwells in a temple unbuilt by human hands. We are living stones that make up his church..his temple. The church is as small as two men gathered in Christ's name and as large as the billions who have been a part of it from the beginning of time. The church is a transtemporal reality...a bulwark against which the likes of Hell shall not prevail.

It is not that all Catholics are all wrong...its just that some of them think of the "church" on too small of scale! The Church was always bigger than Rome!