In the beginning was Calvinism

unknown | Steve Schlissel

[Gamecock]

An interesting read from our Messianic friends:

The Synagogue of Christ by Steve Schlissel Messianic Jewish pastor Messiah's Congregation, Brooklyn, New York.

The church wasn't born at Pentecost. It was Bar Mitzvah'd. No small matter, this. The church had a long, albeit dotted, history by the time the Spirit in Christ's fullness fell, and a glorious, albeit difficult, future. By Pentecost, the church, because of its history, its providentially-ordained organization and the Holy Spirit's promised guidance, was well-prepared to fulfill its function in the world.

The Belgic Confession, in Article XXVII, states, "We believe and profess one catholic or universal Church...This Church has been from the beginning of the world, and will be to the end thereof..." It has not, however, always had the same form. In the Garden of Eden God identified and separated the church (then consisting of two) using the essential elements, Word and Sacrament, Promise and Token, which would be present throughout the church's history, in some form or another. Our first parents were created to understand themselves and all things else in terms of a word. They had received the defining Word of God; they had heard the anti-word of the serpent. Choosing the devil's definitions, they had broken covenant with their Creator and entered into league with the destroyer, becoming co-pretenders with him to the throne.

God was not about to forsake His purposes, or to quickly formulate a "Plan B." He graciously and forcefully took back Adam and Eve-He redeemed them-by placing hostility between them and their new master (the Antithesis), by promising in their hearing the incarnation of the conquering, suffering Messiah (the Protevangelium, first proclamation of the Gospel), and by clothing them with God-provided coverings (the "Sacrament"), indicating in the clearest terms that their fig leaves (their instinctive effort at self-atonement/covering) were wholly inadequate and unacceptable. It is God who saves. Calvinism did not originate in Geneva; it is found in Eden. God's people, the covenant line, would henceforth be the people redeemed by Him to live, once again, in terms of His Word.

Calvinists are not the "church" founded by John Knox in Scotland. Knox founded no "church", but a Denomination. We are not the "church" founded by the Protestant Reformers. The Reformers founded no "church", but a Reformation. We are not the "church" founded by the Popes at Rome. No "pope" has founded any "church", just a (false) Administration. We are not the "church" founded by the Apostles at Pentecost. The Apostles founded no "church", but a Dispensation. We are not the "church" founded by Moses at Sinai. Moses founded no "church", but a covenanted Theonomic Congregation.

Calvinists are the Church founded by God in the very Garden of Eden. We are the Covenant Line of God's People, redeemed by Him to live in terms of His Word. We have stood the test of Time. And the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against us.

[Gamecock]

An interesting read from our Messianic friends:

[Gamecock]

Wanna play?

[maestro]

The church wasn't born at Pentecost. It was Bar Mitzvah'd.

Well,.....so,.... the Devil began his messianic synagogue-church in Eden?

And,......had it Bar Mitzvah'd at Pentecost?

yep,......a liar from the beginning be he,.........and his congregations are liars too!

(Romans 10:17)

Worship God!

[DoorGunner]

 

This article can be found on this forum page (Warning, long loading time--may crash):

http://www.christianforums.com/t46671&page=3

It was posted by someone screen-named "Woody." In that post, it appears as if the first part of the article was written by Schlissel, and that the last two paragraphs or so, were contributed by "Woody." Is this maybe "CC Woody?"

 

DG

[dangus]

B-b-b-BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAA!!
WHOOOAA-HAHAHA!!
Oh, OH, OH, WAHAHAHAHAHAA!!
Wow! You gotta warn me about these! The apostles didn't found a church, but a "dispensation!" Oh, too funny, too funny.
Talk about non-biblical!

No seriously... this is a good lesson in how to cause cascading presumptions. Adam and Eve were not part of any Church in any pre-Calvin sense of the word. This "confession" is creating a new definition of a word. The truth, principles and intents on which The Church was founded have existed since Adam and Eve, and the Word had always existed, so there's an appeal to sayin Adam and Eve were within a Church. But while ancients were like a Church in some ways, they weren't in the most basic meanings meanings of what "Church means."

So why assert something which is untrue on its face, and is plainly non-scriptural? Because once you redefine basic terminology, you can use it to assert meanings and interpretations which would otherwise seem false in their face.

So, no, we don't have to assemble to be an assembly; we don't have to be recognizable from the outside to be visible; we don't have uphold common beliefs to be united; we don't have to be follow a succession to be apostolic. No, all these words are code-words for some deeper meaning.

Or you could simply believe them to be true.

[dangus]

Did you not get the formatting, he is called the
Cordial Calvinist Woody!
Of course he is!

[dangus]

Holy Cow... This sounds like me
Not exactly, or else I would think I was being quoted, but fantastically close:

"As an example, listed below are just a few of the major doctrines and beliefs that divide Protestant Sola Scriptura, Churches:
Infant or Adult baptism?
Calvinist Predestination or Arminian Free Will?
Once Saved Always Saved?
Can You Lose Your Salvation?
Is there Assurance of Salvation?
Divorce
Abortion
Is prophecy still given?
Are there still Miracles?
Are miracles guaranteed if you have enough faith?
Will there be a pre-tribulation Rapture of Christians?
Premillenialism or Postmillenialism?
Will there even be a millennium?
Speaking in Tongues - is it valid or not?
Baptism in the Holy Spirit - is it real or a deception?
Are demons real?
Is Jesus physically present in Communion?
Are the Sacraments necessary to salvation?
What form of Authority should exist in the Church?
Need a Church have Bishops?
Can Women be Pastors?
Can homosexuals be admitted to Church?
Does God promise Christians material prosperity?
Should all Images be banned in Worship?
How do you become a Christian?
What musical instruments to use in Worship?
Euthanasia?
Contraception?

The list goes on and on........"

I did not say this:

"The Bible is indeed the sacred, written Word of God, but it cannot interpret itself."

[snerkel]

Was that the correct link? That link took me to "definition of sola scriptura" discussion.

[Gamecock]

You left one out: Can priests molest small boys?

[DoorGunner]

It is the correct link: Go to "Edit" "Find in page" Type in "Scotland." This will get you to the article.

DG

p.s. As I write this, the page will load, but the articles will not display (on my antique PC). I imagine that the site is overloaded.

[DoorGunner]

"Of course he is!"

Looks like you are right.

DG

[dangus]

What happens when priests molest small boys?
The small boys' souls are badly scarred.
They often develop severe psychological difficulties.
They can't trust authority and cannot function inside any structure.
They begin to perceive the world as evil.
They are filled with blind hatred and fantasies about destruction and vengeance.
They see people as purely good or purely evil, and anyone who is not allied with them is purely evil.
Their experience of powerlessness makes them insist that people are not responsible for their actions, but are destined to act as they do by unseen forces.
In this state of psychological trauma, they become unreachable by ordinarily fruitful spiritual acts, and impervious to logic.
They lose any sense of charity.
Naturally, Calvinism has a strong appeal to them.

I wonder what Freud would make of your username.
Is there something you wanna tell us, Gamecock?

[dangus]

Come to think of it... Freud would probably be fascinated by the name "C C Woody!"

[dangus]

No, I retract that... that's not fair... Woody, I'm sorry; I didn't mean it. I have no fight with Woody in this thread. And it's not funny.

[DoorGunner]

It looks like I need to go back to my work on those "RCC Apologetics" pages. Not anytime soon, though.

DG

p.s. You could try praying for my health (to get worse). You never know when it might work.

[Gamecock]

***I wonder what Freud would make of your username.
Is there something you wanna tell us, Gamecock?***


How about it's the nickname of one of the great Revolutionary War heros, Thomas Sumter? Or the mascot of my University?.

Why don't you tell us exactly what you were thinking, or is it far too perverted?


***Naturally, Calvinism has a strong appeal to them.***

And Calvinism is where they learn that we are all sinners and might actually forgive your apostate priests.

[snerkel]

I must be doing something incorrectly.

[drstevej]

If you're gonna apopogize to Woody ya ought to flag him to the post. He isn't Clairvoyant Calvinist Woody.

Your post #9 to Gamecock was also tasteless. But you probably knew that.

[dangus]

>>And Calvinism is where they learn that we are all sinners and might actually forgive your apostate priests.>>

Not the way the Calvinists say it. Nosirreee, "they're all going to Hell because they weren't predestined." "They're evil because God intends there to be evil so that He may be glorified."

This is not my concept of forgiveness: "Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do, but torture them in unending horror and unspeakably intense agony for the rest of eternity, anyway." Like I said, no concept of charity.

Come on, get off it. If you've learned forgiveness you wouldn't throw that cheap shot into every discussion. And, yeah, I threw a cheap shot back. But I'd suggest brushing up on your Freud (except Freud's a whack job, so why?).

[DoorGunner]

"I must be doing something incorrectly."

Possibly, but maybe not. I just now followed the link, as posted, and it worked fine. The workd to search for is "Scotland." It only appears once on this page--in the subject article.

It does seem that this site is very slow (up to 5 minutes) and flakey, in the computer sense. It sometimes stalls my computer.

DG