Posted on 11/03/2003 9:42:20 PM PST by RnMomof7
Where is this one true Church? What is this one true Church like? What are the marks by which this one true Church may be known? You may well ask such questions. Give me your attention, and I will provide you with some answers.
1. The one true Church IS COMPOSED OF ALL BELIEVERS IN THE LORD JESUS. It is made up of all God's elect - of all converted men and women - of all true Christians. In whomsoever we can discern the election of God the Father, the sprinkling of the blood of God the Son, the sanctifying work of God the Spirit, in that person we see a member of Christ's true Church.
2. It is a Church OF WHICH ALL THE MEMBERS HAVE THE SAME MARKS. They are all born again of the Spirit; they all possess "repentance towards God, faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ," and holiness of life and conversation. They all hate sin, and they all love Christ. (They worship differently, and after various fashions; some worship with a form of prayer, and some with none; some worship kneeling, and some standing; but they all worship with one heart.) They are all led by one Spirit; they all build upon one foundation; they all draw their religion from one single book - that is the Bible. They are all joined to one great center - that is Jesus Christ. They all even now can say with one heart, "Hallelujah;" and they can all respond with one heart and voice, Amen and Amen.
3. It is a Church WHICH IS DEPENDENT UPON NO MINISTERS UPON EARTH, however much it values those who preach the gospel to its members. The life of its members does not hang upon Church-membership, or baptism, or the Lord's Supper - although they highly value these things when they are to be had. But it has only one Great Head - one Shepherd, one chief Bishop - and that is Jesus Christ. He alone, By His Spirit, admits the members of this Church, though ministers may show the door. Till He opens the door no man on earth can open it - neither bishops, nor presbyters, nor convocations, nor synods. Once let a man repent and believe the gospel, and that moment he becomes a member of this Church. Like the penitent thief, he may have no opportunity of being baptized; but he has that which is far better than any water-baptism - the baptism of the Spirit. He may not be able to receive the bread and wine in the Lord's Supper;but he eats Christ's body and drinks Christ's blood by faith every day he lives, and no minister on earth can prevent him. He may be ex-communicated by ordained men, and cut off from the outward ordinances of the professing Church; but all the ordained men in the world cannot shut him out of the true Church.
It is a Church whose existence does not depend on forms, ceremonies, cathedrals, churches, chapels, pulpits, fonts, vestments, organs, endowments, money, kings, governments, magistrates or any act of favor whatsoever from the hand of man. It has often lived on and continued when all these things have been taken from it. It has often been driven into the wilderness, or into dens and caves of the earth, by those who ought to have been its friends. Its existence depends on nothing but the presence of Christ and His Spirit; and they being ever with it, the Church cannot die.
4. This is the Church TO WHICH THE SCRIPTURAL TITLES OF PRESENT HONOR AND PRIVILEGE, AND THE PROMISES OF FUTURE GLORY ESPECIALLY BELONG; this is the Body of Christ; this is the flock of Christ; this is the household of faith and the family of God; this is God's building, God's foundation, and the temple of the Holy Ghost. This is the Church of the first-born, whose names are written in heaven; this is the royal priesthood, the chosen generation, the peculiar people, the purchased possession, the habitation of God, the light of the world, the salt and the wheat of the earth; this is the "Holy Catholic Church" of the Apostles' Creed; this is the "One Catholic and Apostolic Church" of the Nicene Creed; this is that Church to which the Lord Jesus promises "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it," and to which He says, "I am with you always, even unto the end of the world"(Matt.16:18; 28:2).
5. This is the only Church WHICH POSSESSES TRUE UNITY. Its members are entirely agreed on all the weightier matters of religion, for they are all taught by one Spirit. About God, and Christ, and the Spirit, and sin, and their own hearts, and faith, and repentance, and necessity of holiness, and the value of the Bible, and the importance of prayer, and the resurrection, and judgment to come - about all these points they are of one mind. Take three or four of them, strangers to one another, from the remotest corners of the earth; examine them separately on these points: you will find them all one judgment.
6. This is the only Church WHICH POSSESSES TRUE SANCTITY. Its members are all holy. They are not merely holy by profession, holy in name, and holy in the judgment of charity; they are all holy in act, and deed, and reality, and life, and truth. They are all more or less conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. No unholy man belongs to this Church.
7. This is the only Church WHICH IS TRULY CATHOLIC. It is not the Church of any one nation or people; its members are to be found in every part of the world where the gospel is received and believed. It is not confined within the limits of any one country, or pent up within the pale of any particular forms of outward government. In it there is no difference between Jew and Greek, black man and white, Episcopalian and Presbyterian - but faith in Christ is all. Its members will be gathered from north, and south, and east, and west, and will be of every name and tongue - but all one in Jesus Christ.
8. This is the only Church WHICH IS TRULY APOSTOLIC. It is built on the foundation laid by the Apostles, and holds the doctrines which they preached. The two grand objects at which its members aim are apostolic faith and apostolic practice; and they consider the man who talks of following the Apostles without possessing these two things to be no better than sounding brass and tinkling cymbal.
9. This is the only Church WHICH IS CERTAIN TO ENDURE UNTO THE END. Nothing can altogether overthrow and destroy it. Its members may be persecuted, oppressed, imprisoned, beaten, beheaded, burned; but the true Chruch is never altogether extinguished; it rises again from its afflictions; it lives on through fire and water. When crushed in one land it springs up in another. The Pharaohs, the Herods, the Neros, the Bloody Marys, have labored in vain to put down this Church; they slay their thousands, and then pass away and go to their own place. The true Church outlives them all, and sees them buried each in his turn. It is an anvil that has broken many a hammer in this world, and will break many a hammer still; it is a bush which is often burning, and yet it's not consumed.
10. This is the only Church OF WHICH NO ONE MEMBER CAN PERISH. Once enrolled in the lists of this Church, sinners are safe for eternity; they are never cast away. The election of God the Father, the continual intercession of God the Son, the daily renewing and sanctifying power of God the Holy Ghost, surround and fence them in like a garden enclosed. Not one bone of Christ's mystical Body shall ever be broken; not one lamb of Christ's flock shall ever be plucked out of His hand.
11. This is the Church WHICH DOES THE WORK OF CHRIST UPON EARTH. Its members are a little flock, and few in numbers, compared with the children of the world; one or two here, and two or three there - a few in this place and few in that. But these are they who shake the universe; these are they who change the fortunes of kingdoms by their prayers; these are they who are the active workers for spreading the knowledge of pure religion and undefiled; these are the life-blood of a country, the shield, the defence, the stay, and the support of any nation to which they belong.
12. This is the Church WHICH SHALL BE TRULY GLORIOUS AT THE END. When all earthly glory is passsed away then shall this Church be presented without spot before God the Father's throne. Thrones, principalities, and powers upon earth shall come to nothing; dignities, and offices, and endowments shall all pass away; but the Church of the first-born shall shine as the stars at the last, and be presented with joy before the Father's throne, in the day of Christ's appearing. When the Lord's jewels are made up, and manifestation of the sons of God takes place, Episcopacy, and Presbyterianism, and Congregationalism will not be mentioned; one Church only will be named, and that is the Church of the elect.
13. Reader, THIS IS THE TRUE CHURCH TO WHICH A MAN MUST BELONG, IF HE WOULD BE SAVED. Till you belong to this, you are nothing better than a lost soul. You may have the form, the husk, the skin, and the shell of religion, but you have not got the substance and the life. Yes, you may have countless outward privileges; you may enjoy great light, and knowledge - but if you do not belong to the Body of Christ, your light and knowledge and privileges will not save your soul. Alas, for the ignorance that prevails on this point! Men fancy if they join this church or that church, and become communicants, and go through certain forms, that all must be right in their souls. It is an utter delusion, it is a gross mistake. All were not Israel who were called Israel, and all are not members of Christ's Body who profess themselves Christian. TAKE NOTICE; you may be a staunch Episcopalian, or Presbyterian, or Independent, or Baptist, or Wesleyan, or Plymouth Brother - and yet not belong to the true Church. And if you do not, it will be better at last if you had never been born.
Return to Rich's Home Page of Reformed Theology
The Supreme Court is irrelevant.
SD
I'm starting to wonder about your comprehension. Bishops who covered up for molesting priests surely knew they were doing somethign wrong. As did the priests.
If they had only, as you said, "followed the checklist" they would have found such use of the sexual gift to be sinful. What a better place this would be if they had only "followed the checklist" indeed.
Likewise, "progressive" bishops who defy the authority of the Church know exactly what they are doing. If they go to hell for it, you can't say they weren't warned.
SD
It's the logical extension of his statement Dave. Nothing more or less. He proffered what he said in reply and I accepted it as such. What he said begged the issue. We arent' unfamiliar with this issue either. Who here doesn't know that being labled by the church puts you out of favor with friends, family, ..anyone that is Catholic. But your own teaching creates the Quandry and we need only look to history to see that when the people had enough of the hypocricy and error of the church, they often were put to death for their responses to it - were chased to the ends of the earth, or revolted against the church and schizmed. Valla nearly went before the inquisition for telling the truth about the lies of Catholicism in his time. Not for being in error, wrong, etc; but, for exposing the truth.
It is built into your system. Cover it up, hide it and persecute or expel anyone that makes waves. What level of indignation do you think would exist in the 'church' if the law had not got involved in the recent priest scandals? Who do you think would know. One can be assured no one would have lost his job - much less gone to jail. That all came about by external pressure. Tell us a story Dave. I haven't heard really good fiction in a while.
St. Matthew 5.19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
St. Matthew 19.17 ... But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness.
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
1 St. John 2.3 And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He who saith that he knoweth him and keepeth not his commandments is a liar: and the truth is not in him.
5 But he that keepeth his word, in him in very deed the charity of God is perfected. And by this we know that we are in him.
Galatians 5.13 For you, brethren, have been called unto liberty. Only make not liberty an occasion to the flesh: but by charity of the spirit serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if you bite and devour one another: take heed you be not consumed one of another.
16 I say then: Walk in the spirit: and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the spirit: and the spirit against the flesh: For these are contrary one to another: so that you do not the things that you would.
18 But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest: which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury,
20 Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects,
21 Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.
Logical extentions often aren't logical.
Scripture never says the Kingdom of Heaven is "the church"
As if to say that that's not what the Matt 13 parables were referring to, and then you ended with:
Those Parables are about the sorting out of the visible church at the end of time
Which is essentially what I'm saying. This parable cannot be the Kingdom *in heaven* because only the saved are in heaven. And it cannot mean a "Church of the Elect" for the same reason. On the other hand, what else besides a Church could "kingdom of heaven" mean? I do not see how "kingdom of Heaven" here can be taken in any other sense BUT the visible Church on earth. But if you have any ideas I'd like to hear them.
Christ's conception here is of a visible Church in which there are saved and unsaved. That is diametrically opposed to Ryle's vision of a Church being an invisible entity of the Saved. Ryle says: "Once enrolled in the lists of this Church, sinners are safe for eternity; they are never cast away." I cannot square that with Christ's words in the Gospel.
"Masons are an occult religion. Rites of initiation at higher levels are directly blasphemous and sacreligious.... If it's a secret society, how would one know if the rites of initiation are directly blasphemous and sacreligious?
That's not for us to judge, is it? Someone in that position certainly should know such things.
If they don't know the risen Lord they are given over to the desires of their heart.
True. There is no guarantee that any given priest or bishop is "saved."
They may even be fooled because they are following the "checklist" and think confessing to a God they don't know will save them.
Once again, if they truly tried to follow "the checklist" they would try to avoid their sin. If that is what they did, but they failed, we are not in a position to judge. If they knew it was wrong, but did it anyway, that is when we know they will be damned.
None of this has anythign to do with confession. One can claim to be "born again" and still sin, struggle with sin. Or one can claim to be born again but have no intention of giving up sin. We are not in a position to judge.
The point is there are empty forms of piety in any religion, even yours.
Do you hold them in such reverance that you would not share the Good News with them?
Why would you assume that they don't know? To answer your question, no I wouldn't hold a famous sinner in such "reverance."
SD
Do you ever stop reading your own prejudices into the posts of others? Did I ever say keeping the commandments saves you?
So again, how does Ryle's supposedly "Scriptural" conception of the Church as an invisible collection of the saved jive with Christ's conception of the "kingdom of heaven" in Matt 13 which clearly contains both the saved and the unsaved (see my post 292).
You say the nature of the True Church is revealed in Scripture. I think the same thing. Yet you think Scripture "reveals" something which I can't find there, and I further maintain that Ryle's conception is *in itself* a preconceived notion which is not found in Scripture.
In your world, have the Chinese Communists been in power since before the Roman Empire?
Them who have ears, let them hear. Just yesterday we were hearing how many Protestants adhere to the creeds and believe int he Communion of Saints. Today we see what that means in practice. There is a disdain of history and no interest shown, nor creedence given, to what Christians in the past believed or taught. If I claimed to believe in the saints, I would want to know what they believed, and would not just assume that the way I read the Bible must have been what they believed.
Then again, there is danger in being deep in history.
SD
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