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Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis
Trad-X (Traditional Catholic Generation-X) ^
| Aug 16, 2001
| Pete Vere
Posted on 10/27/2003 12:47:07 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
From: milford@e... Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 2:42 pm Subject: Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis
Greetings!
I am attaching the transcript of a thread initiated by one of our listmembers on another list, namely CDLEO, concerning annulments. Of particular interest to me, is how it illustrates the misleading nature of statistics, and the need to treat the illness, rather than the symptoms -- in this case, through better marriage preparation.
Funny how some of the intellectual giants in the "orthodox" Catholic press never picked up on this.
DLA '54
+ + +
From: pete_vere@y... Date: Fri Aug 10, 2001 6:14 pm Subject: Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis
Hi, I just got back from a regional canon law conference, where Fr. Sable of the Roman Rota gave an interesting presentation.
One of the interesting things that came out is the actual annulment rate among Catholics. Turns out that only between 30 and 40% of annulments in the United States pertain to Catholic marriages. The vast majority pertain to non-Catholic marriages of which one party now seeks to marry a Catholic, or convert to Catholicism.
However, when we look only at marriages attempted in the Catholic Church, our per-capita annulment ratio is reportedly lower than both Italy and Poland.
Pax Christi, Pete Vere
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From: artsippo@a... Date: Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:34 pm Subject: Re: [cdleo] Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis
This is an interesting set of statistics. It shows that at least half of all annullments represent ACTUAL or POTENTIAL converts to the faith. Strange, but the annullment process may be a tool of evangeliaztion.
Any thoughts?
Art
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From: pete_vere@y... Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 3:26 am Subject: Re: Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis
Dear Art,
--- In cdleo@y..., artsippo@a... wrote: > This is an interesting set of statistics. It shows that at least > half of all annullments represent ACTUAL or POTENTIAL converts to > the faith. Strange, but the annullment process may be a tool of > evangeliaztion. > > Any thoughts?
Yeah, I think we have to look at the Bible-belt as well. It is not uncommon for individuals to have attempted marriage multiple times before meeting a Catholic, or seeking to convert to Catholicism.
For example, a friend of mine from the Deep South had a couple come to him wanting to be received into the Catholic Church. She was from a fundamentalist protestant background, and had attempted seven prior marriages before meeting her present spouse. The first of these prior marriages was attempted when she was fifteen, and the last one ended when she was about twenty-four, making for roughly one a year.
Her eighth marriage, to a guy who was also fundy prot background, was in its tenth year, and thus much more stable than the previous ones. However, he too had gone through three marriages beforehand, each of which lasted somewhere between a year and three years. Each party had come from a similar background, whereby their parents had married a number of times.
Suddenly, my buddy was looking at ten annulments for one couple seeking to enter the Church. However, all those previous marriages were legitimately invalid, because the parties had entered the marriage partially motivated by their erroneous belief marriage was soluable, and thus they could get out of it if things didn't work out.
Pax Christi, Pete Vere
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From: "Christopher Zehnder" Date: Sat Aug 11, 2001 3:33 pm Subject: Re: [cdleo] Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis
Mr. Vere,
Is there any documentation on this? It's sounds very interesting.
Pax Christi, Christopher Zehnder
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From: pete_vere@y... Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 3:11 am Subject: Re: Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis
> Mr. Vere,
Just Pete will do...
> Is there any documentation on this? It's sounds very interesting. > > Pax Christi, > Christopher Zehnder
Yeah, the statistic cited was from Msgr. Sable who serves as a judge on the Roman Rota. The Vatican keeps all sorts of statistics on annulments, so I would imagine they're available. I can also say, although not scientific, that in the somewhere over 50 marriage cases I have worked on, less than half involved a Catholic party.
Nevertheless, I am just beggining my own research on this issue, and have thus far relied on information provided to me by other canonists who have been keeping tabs a lot longer than I have. However, a former classmate and I are seriously thinking of collaborating on some future projects concerning this issue for the Catholic media.
Pax Christi, Pete Vere
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TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: annulment; catholic; catholiclist; crisis; divorce; remarriage
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Worth repeating ...
"However, when we look only at marriages attempted in the Catholic Church, our per-capita annulment ratio is reportedly lower than both Italy and Poland."
So the Catholic Annulment Scandal is really the fault of Protestants.
To: sinkspur; Loyalist; ThomasMore; Catholicguy; NYer; american colleen; narses; wideawake; dangus; ...
Ping!
Though you'd find this interesting. I finally dug it up.
To: Hermann the Cherusker
Did you ctach the line "Funny, how those great traditionalist minds haven't processed this" or something like that?
All these liberal pastors blessing all these so-called marriages between Catholics and people who *remain* protestant, and when they go bad. That's a strong argument against liberals' sham marriages!
... but was this article claiming the issue is annulling marriages which were between *TWO* non-Catholics? I honestly never even knew that was necessary!
3
posted on
10/27/2003 2:16:46 PM PST
by
dangus
To: Hermann the Cherusker
LOL. Very neat and informative post. Thanks
4
posted on
10/27/2003 2:44:06 PM PST
by
Catholicguy
(MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
To: Hermann the Cherusker
Dear Hermann,
This is a really excellent post. Thanks for putting it up.
In a time when the larger society has entirely devalued the meaning of marriage, we should be unsurprised that many marriages that in another time would have been sacramental in nature, no longer rise to that standard.
That Holy Mother Church makes available a remedy for these circumstances ought to be praised, not condemned.
Most of the folks I know who actually went ahead with annullments were non-Catholics finding their way to Catholic Truth and Faith, and whose prior understanding of marriage was,..., ahem,..., certainly not Catholic. Sometimes, their prior beliefs bordered on the bizarre.
Again, thanks for a great post.
sitetest
5
posted on
10/27/2003 2:48:11 PM PST
by
sitetest
(Remember to pray for my dad.)
To: dangus
"... but was this article claiming the issue is annulling marriages which were between *TWO* non-Catholics? I honestly never even knew that was necessary!"
I don't think it is. I think all that's necessary is for competent authority to find that such marriages were invalid, and to regularize the current marriage.
6
posted on
10/27/2003 3:14:28 PM PST
by
dsc
To: dangus; Hermann the Cherusker; sinkspur
Dear dangus,
Two baptized non-Catholic Christians who marry in an ostensibly Christian ceremony are presumed by the Catholic Church to have entered a sacramental marriage. Should the marriage be dissolved civilly in divorce, and either party wish to marry within the Catholic Church, a Catholic marriage tribunal must judge the prior marriage to be sacramentally null.
Sinkspur, Hermann, if I didn't get that quite right, please offer your corrections. Thanks.
sitetest
7
posted on
10/27/2003 3:18:15 PM PST
by
sitetest
(Remember to pray for my dad.)
To: sitetest
You are correct, sir. And welcome back. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your dad, especially, and with the rest of your family.
8
posted on
10/27/2003 3:19:23 PM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You will save one life, and may save two.)
To: Hermann the Cherusker
Good find!
9
posted on
10/27/2003 3:20:05 PM PST
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: sinkspur
Thanks. Keep praying for my dad. You can imagine how hard it is for him.
10
posted on
10/27/2003 3:20:44 PM PST
by
sitetest
(Remember to pray for my dad.)
To: Hermann the Cherusker
Suddenly, my buddy was looking at ten annulments for one couple seeking to enter the Church. However, all those previous marriages were legitimately invalid, because the parties had entered the marriage partially motivated by their erroneous belief marriage was soluable, and thus they could get out of it if things didn't work out. The most I ever saw were four marriages by one party and two by the other.
All six were less than three years each. I sought the advice of a long-time priest-judge in Dallas, and he advised me to argue on the same grounds; that is, that the short time in each marriage was a good indication of a lack of formation and "an inability to contract a Christian marriage." Interestingly, it only took six months to get these annulments, as no outside testimony was even necessary.
Both parties were converting to the Catholic Church, and I went to their wedding, which took place a week after their profession of faith. This was back in 1983 or 84.
They are still married, after nearly 20 years.
11
posted on
10/27/2003 3:30:19 PM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You will save one life, and may save two.)
To: sitetest
Yes. My dad lost my mother after 44 years of marriage, and was sick himself when she died.
I know that her death hastened his, so stay close to your father. Though he has his children, he likely feels very alone.
12
posted on
10/27/2003 3:32:21 PM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You will save one life, and may save two.)
To: Hermann the Cherusker
This data contradicts Vasoli's work, "What God Has Joined Together : The Annulment Crisis in American Catholicism" where he says "The United States is home to only six percent of the world's Catholics, but it now accounts for 75 percent of all Church annulments.This revealing look at annulment weaves painstaking analysis with a wealth of evidence to illuminate the degree to which the U.S. Catholic Church has gone its own way since Vatican II on what constitutes a valid marriage."
13
posted on
10/27/2003 4:49:41 PM PST
by
narses
("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
To: Hermann the Cherusker; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; ...
Here is a summary/review:
March 1999
The annulment crisis in the Church
Fr. Leonard Kennedy, c.s.b.
Review article
Robert H. Vasoli, What God has joined together (Oxford University Press, 1998, 252 pages, hardcover, $40 Canadian).
The Catholic Church does not accept divorce. Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble (Mt 5:31-21; 19:3-9; Mk 10:9; Lk 16:18; 1 Cor 7:10-11). However, the Church can declare the nullity of a marriage, i.e., declare that the marriage never existed (Code of Canon Law, #1095-1107; see also the Catechism of the Catholic Church, under "Divorce").
Last October Pope John Paul II, meeting with a delegation of US bishops, expressed his dissatisfaction with the number of annulments being granted to Catholics. US Catholics receive a disproportionately greater number of annulments each year.
The Holy Father said that annulments should be a last resort. "The indissolubility of marriage is a teaching that comes from Christ himself, and the first duty of pastors and pastoral workers is therefore to help couples overcome whatever difficulties arise. The referral of matrimonial cases to the tribunal should be a last resort."
The author of this book is a sociologist. After he had been married for fifteen years, he was notified that he was the respondent in the case for annulment of his marriage, which he was perfectly sure had been valid. In order to oppose the annulment he had to spend all his spare time reading about annulments and fighting to save the validity of his marriage. He has now become an expert in this matter and has decided to share with others what he has learned. He examines every aspect of annulments in the United States.
Annulments booming
The United States has 6% of the world's Catholics but grants 78% percent of the world's annulments. In 1968 the Church there granted fewer than 600 annulments; from 1984 to 1994 it granted just under 59,000 annually. But more than 90% of the cases which were appealed to the highest matrimonial court, the Roman Rota, were overturned.
The author gives several reasons for the incredible growth in American annulments;
1. There is advertising in church bulletins, Catholic newspapers, and even the secular press, that annulments are available, sometimes with a suggested guarantee that they will be granted. "Some invitations practically promise an annulment to all who apply. The promotional efforts . . . may evoke responses from . . . spouses who dream of greener marital pastures but would not seriously consider separation and divorce were annulment not presented as a convenient and acceptable alternative."
One brochure said: "Usually once a request for annulment is accepted, a favorable decision is given. However, a careful review is made before a request is accepted . . . . A ëfavorable' decision is synonymous with annulment; evidently upholding the validity of marriage is ëunfavorable.'"
2. Most petitions are presented to judges without proper screening. "No fewer than 66 of the 165 diocesan and archdiocesan tribunals . . . decided to go to trial with every petition presented."
3. A high percentage of cases that are tried end in a declaration of nullity. From 1984 to 1994 it was 97% for First Instance trials. All cases however have to have a second trial. The percentage of decisions overturned in the United States is 4/10 of 1%. "What the picture reveals is that mandatory review, and appeals leading to retrials at Second Instance, have done very little to tarnish America's reputation as the annulment capital of the universe."
4. Many matrimonial judges are not well qualified for their work, lacking a doctorate or a licentiate in canon law. Sometimes judges of the First Instance are also judges (on other cases) of the Second Instance, which is not good practice. Three judges are recommended for trials, but most often there is only one (which is allowed with permission).
5. "In practice . . . many if not most tribunal experts seldom conduct a direct, face-to-face examination of either spouse." "Cases have come to my attention where the expert . . . arrived at a diagnosis of defective consent solely by means of a telephone conversation with a tribunal judge . . . . In most judicial systems, attempts to introduce into evidence expert diagnosis of that nature would be laughed out of court."
6.Sometimes the Defender of the Bond does not have a canon law degree and his opinion can be easily overruled by a highly trained judge.
7.Respondents are usually not fully informed of all their options.
8.Rather than considering the detrimental effect on respect for the sacrament of marriage which is caused by the scandal of almost automatic annulment, and the cynicism produced in some of the parties to an annulment and in Catholics generally, those handling the annulments concentrate on sympathy for their clients, or often just for the one initiating the annulment.
9.Theologians argue that in certain papal documents, such as Gaudium et spes and Casti Connubii, the Church has changed the definition of marriage. This argument is fallacious.
10.Many judges think that, if a marriage is not an ideal one, it is not a valid marriage at all, and that therefore an annulment should be granted to any marriage that has broken up.
11.68% of annulments today are granted because of "defective consent," which involves at least one of the parties not having sufficient knowledge or maturity to know what was involved in marriage. The ingenuity of judges in confidently asserting that such knowledge or maturity was lacking is amazing. Vasoli says that it is done by substituting "junk psychology" for sound psychology and psychiatry. He quotes the statement of one matrimonial judge: "There is no marriage which, given a little time for investigation, we cannot declare invalid."
Canon law
According to canon law, defective consent exists only when
ï a person does not have the use of reason,
ï there is a grave lack of discretionary judgment concerning the essential matrimonial rights and obligations,
ï there is something of a psychological nature rendering a person incapable of assuming the essential obligations of marriage.
"Notwithstanding efforts by some canonists to add layers of complexity to the rights, duties, and properties of marriage," states Vasoli, "there really is not much that one must know and will to enter a valid marriage."
The Roman Rota
The popes and the Roman Rota have tried to stop what they consider to be abuses of marriage tribunals in the United States and elsewhere, as, for example, in the Netherlands, but apparently without success. Even the fact that the Rota overturned over 90% of the appeals made to it from the United States has had no observable effect.
Recently the Pope has asked bishops for "strict observance of canonical directions" concerning annulment. He said that the bishops should make certain that "the Defender of the Bond is diligent in presenting and expounding all that can reasonably be argued against the nullity." "Their tribunals," he added, should not act "as an almost automatic confirmation of the judgment of the tribunal of First Instance," and it must be kept in mind that "both parties . . . have rights which must be scrupulously respected."
He also noted that "the tribunal is to make use of the services of an expert in psychology or psychiatry who shares a Christian anthropology in accordance with the Church's understanding of the human person." Most importantly, the Pope stated that "marriage enjoys the favour of the law" (Code of Canon Law, #1060) and that "the judge may not pass sentence in favour of the nullity . . . if he has not first acquired the moral certainty of the existence of nullity; probability alone is not sufficient to decide a case."
Finally the Holy Father said: "Your responsibility as bishops . . .is to ensure that diocesan tribunals exercise faithfully the ministry of truth and justice" (Origins, Oct. 29, 1998).
Other problems
Vasoli remarks that not much is done, when an annulment is granted, to be sure that the party who is said to have had defective consent is now able to consent properly to marriage with another person, which such a party usually does, or has done already. He also points out that, though literature on how to get or grant an annulment is copious, there is very little on how to defend the validity of a marriage, as he found out when he tried to defend his own.
He writes too: "One searches the canonical literature in vain for discussion of the impact annulment has on children . . . . What does the experience teach them about the sanctity and permanence of marriage? And what turmoil is visited upon them if the respondent-parent insists that the marriage was valid? Why did Daddy but not Mommy remarry?"
In the end, he writes, the scandal generated by a particular annulment which people who know the spouses just can't possibly approve of "is infinitesimal compared to the scandal generated by the tribunal system. The system as a whole is scandalous."
Vasoli concludes that "the American Church suffers a runaway tribunal bent on making annulment as easy and painless as possible. The statistical evidence supporting this characterization is overpowering . . . . The blunt truth of the matter is that an entire generation of tribunalists has been indoctrinated in the rectitude of what they do . . . . The leading professors of canon law are precisely those largely responsible for making the system what it is . . . . References to annulment as ëCatholic divorce' are now part of everyday speech."
Vasoli's devastating critique of the present practice of granting annulments will not change the system easily. We already see a tribunalist trying to marginalize this book by transferring attention from its contents to the mind of its author. In a review of the book in the July/August Crisis, Father Joseph Hennessy, J.C.L., of the Boston Metropolitan Tribunal, gives lip service to many of Vasoli's criticisms but tries to draw the mind of the reader away from them by accusing Vasoli of having "smoldering wrath" because of his personal experience, of persisting in "questioning the subjective good faith of the judges," of accusing them of paying only "lip service" to the magisterium, of being filled with "vitriol", and of impugning the character of tribunalists. An unbiased reader would not agree with this appraisal, which sidesteps the issues. Of course Vasoli is dealing with a personal as well as a national scandal, but he deals with the actions, not the minds, of those causing it. And the Roman Rota overturned the granting of an annulment to his wife.
Canada
The book deals with the United States. The only reference to Canada is: "Cardinal Edouard Gagnon . . . related that during a visit to Alberta he and several bishops had occasion to examine sentences handled by an officialis [a judge] who did not believe in the indissolubility of marriage." In 1997 in Canada, 3,187 First Instance cases were resolved by sentence, in which 3,146 annulments were granted and only 41 were denied. In the same year in Canada, of 2951 Second Instance appeal cases, only 29 First Instance cases were overturned.
Living common-law in Canada
A priest from the Halifax archdiocese is writing a thesis for his doctorate in pastoral theology, and has published a spiral-bound xeroxed preview of it. The thesis deals with common-law unions in Canada. Fr. Joseph B. Christensen has done the Catholic Church a service by bringing this topic, until now not sufficiently dealt with publicly, before the national consciousness.
He has distributed questionaires to chancery offices, to priests across the country, to parents, and to those about to be married. The results are published in this book, which contains also two talks given by the author, one to priests in his own archdiocese, the other to laity in one of his own parishes. The contents of these two talks overlap, as one might expect, with each other and with other parts of the book, and undoubtedly will not appear in the final thesis.
Over half of Catholics coming to the rectory for marriage today are living common-law. Some reasons why so many are living common-law are (1) they think it is cheaper, (2) they think it will give them guidance in deciding whether to marry, (3) they say "Everyone's doing it", (4) they're self centered, and (5) they have given up the practice of their faith, the sense of sin, and, along with this, of course, a knowledge of God.
The teaching of Christ and his Church is clear. For example, sex outside of marriage is gravely sinful; one should not receive the Sacrament of Marriage in the state of sin; there must be sufficient knowledge and a sincere desire before this Sacrament is administered; receiving this Sacrament in mortal sin does not necessarily render the Sacrament invalid, though the action is sacrilegious and confers no grace until everything is rectified.
Cause of frustration
Christensen considers the request for marriage made by a couple living common-law to be the chief cause of frustration in priests today. The issue is complex and the problems involved are serious. Ordinarily, at least in the recent past, one or both of the parties had sufficient knowledge of the Catholic faith and also lived in accordance with it. This is not the ordinary case today.
Many couples, though not forbidden to marry because of an impediment such as a marriage bond with a third party, have obstacles which priests find difficult to overcome. For example, is the motive for wanting to be married in the Church a desire to live as God wants, or is it simply to please parents? Is the couple willing to cease cohabitation until they are married? Are the Catholic parties willing to go to Confession? Do they have sufficient knowledge of the faith to realize what is involved in the Sacrament of Marriage? Will they practice the faith from now on?
Further questions arise if it is decided that they should be allowed to marry. Will there be a Mass? Will they be allowed to receive Communion? Should only a small wedding be tolerated?
About these things there are differing attitudes among priests and also among people. Will compromises betray the Sacrament, lead to a sacrilege?
No wonder priests can become frustrated.
Some diocesan guidelines
Not many Canadian dioceses have detailed guidelines. One of the better sets, dating from 1994, states very clearly that "cohabiting couples who seek a Catholic marriage should not be refused a Catholic ceremony solely on account of their cohabitation. Cohabitation is a moral fault, not a canonical impediment.
"Pastors should make every effort to persuade couples to live apart, at least for the time approaching their marriage. If the couple accepts the essential elements of marriage, but all efforts in separating them do not succeed, ask, as a last resort, that they abstain from sex for a few days immediately before the wedding so that they will be able to receive the Sacraments of Penance and Holy Eucharist, and also receive the Sacrament of Marriage fruitfully while in the state of grace.
"If a couple rejects any of the essential elements (the good of the spouses, procreation, the education of offspring), or any of the essential properties (unity, indissolubility) of Christian marriage, then a priest many not marry them; indeed such a marriage would be invalid. In summary, if marriage in the Church has some religious meaning for the cohabiting couple, then the priest may marry them; however, if there is a complete absence of religious meaning for the couple in a church ceremony, then the marriage is to be postponed. These principles apply equally to couples who are not cohabiting but are habitually sexually active with each other."
Reaction from priests
One priest writes: "I hope that this has been dealt with in the pre marriage course. If they come through the course and have not changed, I just go along. At one time I had the practice of refusing to marry them until they separated. However, I found out that most of the priests were not taking any stand and it then began that the couples would shop around to find a priest who would not ask too many questions. So my efforts were for naught. Until we come to a uniform policy for a diocese, a region, or the country, there is not much we can do."
(Sometimes it leads to conflicts among priests. Recently, in Ottawa, one priest refused to marry a couple because they insited on living together. They then went to a neighbouring parish with a "liberal" priest who promptly got permission from the bishop to marry them in the first priest's church!)
Another priest writes: "It is important to note that we do not need solutions which require more preparation on [the part] of the priest. The priest is involved in preparation for Baptism, Penance, Confirmation, Eucharist, Marriage, the Sacrament of the Sick, etc. We just get lay people trained and comfortable in assisting when their term is up and they are gone. A pastoral solution to common-law unions involving more work on the part of priests is not the answer.
"If I were to advance a solution, it would be to have the Church less involved in the marriage business. The form of marriage could be done away with and have the Church recognize a non-sacramental marriage. When the couple are ready to celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage let them come forth and request such from the Church. It is my contention that we are dealing with the majority of priests presiding at invalid marriages; some priests are aware of this and the others have not caught on. Most of the couples coming to get married do not have the spiritual goods required to make a permanent matrimonial commitment."
Reactions from couples
Some couples preparing for marriage expressed these views:
"I have difficulty agreeing with abstinence before marriage. Although I would like ëto wait' I just don't feel it is practical in today's world and the guilt of not conforming to the laws of the Roman Catholic Church has actually kept me away from attending."
"I feel the Church should not take such a negative view of people living together, provided they feel their living together is part of their leading up to marriage."
"My outside view is that the Church risks alienating its youth, its future, by its outdated views. My belief is that most priests are aware and non-judgmental of the reality re living together, birth control, etc., but the lack of leadership from the top is criminal as it is usually the under educated, poor, developing world that listens. I also understand that at some point I will have to agree to bring our children up as Catholics solely in order for us to be married in the Catholic Church. Getting people to knowingly lie to the Church somehow seems wrong."
Some of Fr Christensen's conclusions
1. Bishops, priests, and laity should be vitally interested in this problem, which has reached crisis proportions.
2. There should be national guidelines in this matter because "closing our pastoral eyes to it has indeed become the safest, and the most politically correct, way of dealing with common-law unions to date. . . . There has to be something much better." The guidelines should be given to couples at the start of marriage preparation so that there will be no surprises or confrontation.
3. The guidelines must be insisted upon.
4. Many couples "have little or no understanding of Christian teachings"; students in Catholic schools are not being taught the faith well. (This merely confirms what has been observed throughout the country for years.)
5. The author raises the question whether there should be a "two-tiered system of civil and sacramental weddings," such as some other countries have. And he seems inclined to consider this possibility favourably.
Copies of Fr Christensen's book may be purchased by writing to him at P.O. Box 337, Parrsboro, NS, BOM 1S0. Responses to Catholic Insight or to Fr Christensen are encouraged.
14
posted on
10/27/2003 4:52:23 PM PST
by
narses
("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
To: Hermann the Cherusker
One other point, high profile annulments granted to Kennedy-esque wealthy and powerful folks make cynics of the laity.
15
posted on
10/27/2003 4:54:00 PM PST
by
narses
("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
To: sinkspur
On another thread you said,
There is not a marriage, given the current American guidelines, that I couldn't get annulled. Catholics who don't avail themselves of the annullment process are nuts!
Assuming you are accurate, doesn't that represent a de facto crisis?
16
posted on
10/27/2003 5:03:18 PM PST
by
narses
("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
To: sinkspur
More data to help you answer:
American dioceses process about 60,000 annulment cases a year -- accounting for 75 percent of such cases worldwide. As recently as 1968, there were about 400 cases in the United States. Nowadays, that number of cases is handled by the Diocese of Lansing in a typical year. About four out of five people nationally who apply for Catholic annulments receive them, Vatican statistics show. Detroit officials declined to give exact statistics on how many annulments are granted in the seven-county archdiocese.
From http://www.freep.com/news/religion/weddet9_19991109.htm
17
posted on
10/27/2003 5:13:12 PM PST
by
narses
("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
To: Hermann the Cherusker
***So the Catholic Annulment Scandal is really the fault of Protestants.***
LOL
Nah,it's just RCs trying to tap dance around their own doctrine.
18
posted on
10/27/2003 5:13:42 PM PST
by
Gamecock
(Going to church no more makes you a christian than sleeping in your garage makes you a car. Keiler)
To: narses; Hermann the Cherusker
Assuming you are accurate, doesn't that represent a de facto crisis? No. As Hermann has deftly pointed out, over 60% of the annulments involve NON-CATHOLICS who are looking to join the Church. In the vast majority of THOSE cases, the non-Catholics do not have the same view of the indissolubility of marriage as Catholics do. IOW, "'til death do us part" does not necessarily mean the same thing to certain Baptists, or non-Christians (whose civil marriages must also be annulled), as it does to Catholics.
My reference was to "inability to contract a Christian marriage" which is a ground for annulment, approved by the Roman Rota. Every marriage case I ever acted on as advocate (and I'd estimate that number is between 70-80) was accepted, and an annulment was granted.
I also helped my father-in-law secure an annulment from my now dead mother-in-law, who physically beat him with pots and pans, for nearly 20 years. He stayed with her that long for the sake of his children, and has been married to a wonderful woman, in the Church, for 15 years.
Every Catholic ought to have to listen to some of these cases before pronouncing judgement on whether or not the Church is being too loose with annulments.
19
posted on
10/27/2003 5:17:28 PM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You will save one life, and may save two.)
To: sinkspur
So the 40% (assuming that Vere's data is even close to accurate) that are Catholic on Catholic annulments don't represent a crisis? Since you haven't sat in on those, is your view even germane? My anectdotal evidence is that every annulment I've heard of has been Catholic on Catholic, and most are serial marraiges. Ine every case, when I know the parties well enough to ask, they assure me the priests involved have given them assurance that annulments are easy to get and their civil divorce is no impediment.
20
posted on
10/27/2003 5:31:07 PM PST
by
narses
("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
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