New L.A Times Recall Poll: Blacks and Asians Need not Apply

Los Angeles Times ^ | October 1st, 2003

[Sabertooth]

Check out the pdf file for the L.A. Times Recall Poll.
No subscription or log in is necessary.

Here's a sample question...

Q29: Are you more or less likely to vote for a candidate who supports the legislation which allows illegal immigrants to receive drivers' licenses, or does that not make a difference in your vote one way or the other?

------------------- Among likely voters -------------------

	LV	Dem	Rep	Lib	Mod	Con	Wht	Lat
More likely	13	24	3	28	10	4	10	32
Less likely	43	22	65	13	43	68	47	27
No difference	41	51	31	57	42	27	40	37
Don't know	3	3	1	2	5	1	3	4

Notice that the poll results for Whites and Latinos are broken down for ethnicity, but there are no poll results for Blacks and Asians. This is the case throughout the entire L.A. Times poll.

Why don't the opinions of Blacks and Asians matter to the L.A. Times?

[pogo101]

The LA Times almost certainly would respond, in substance, "Everyone's opinion matters to us, but our samples included populations of blacks and Asians that were sufficiently small that the margin of error for 'breakdown-within-groups' questions would have been +/- 10 percentage points or more, which we judge to be too high to report."

The Times did add Latinos in its prior big poll to avoid this too-high-error problem -- not "add" to the main poll pool, but "add" just for purposes of accurately breaking down the Latino subgroup.

I suppose the Times could again have run similar little add-on polls as to blacks or Asians, but maybe they figured that it wasn't worth it.

[rdb3]

Not sure everyone here gets that.

Be sure that they "get it." Let a significant number of blacks join/vote GOP. Now, what would happen on the Right?

You have three guesses.

[MeekOneGOP]

[deport]

They probably just considered the sample too small to do a cross-tab for Blacks or Asians. With such small numbers of each, the results would be virtually meaningless.

Much ado about nothing...... They had to do an additional survey sample and add to the overall poll to get 137 Latinos in the mix which for the Latinos specifically has a MOE of 8. They had to add Latinos in their last poll also.

An additional random sample of the state was also surveyed* over the same period and added to the sample which brought the total number of Latino likely voters in the survey to 137. The entire sample of adults was weighted slightly to conform with census figures for sex, race, age and education as well as to registration figures provided by the secretary of state. The margin of sampling error for likely voters is 3 percentage points in either direction; among Latinos it is 8 points.

[Sabertooth]

Be sure that they "get it." Let a significant number of blacks join/vote GOP. Now, what would happen on the Right?

My three guesses...

1. Conservative whites would have to talk to Blacks,
2. Republican politicians would have to talk to Blacks,
3. Both would have to listen to Blacks.

[rdb3]

Those three things are true. However, that's not the culmination of the event blacks switching to the GOP.

If posters here are indicative of the overall, it would mean that many would simply leave the GOP. Call it a political "white flight."

I mean, hey, if blacks vote GOP, it must mean that the GOP is "pandering" to them and selling out "conservative principles." Why do I say that? Offer a thread on how to go after the black vote without pandering. 80% of that thread would consist of terms like, "won't happen," "they'll never leave the Democrat plantation," "the GOP needs to stop pandering" (even if there's no pandering in the article posted), "they vote 90% Dem and that won't ever change," etc. Very few, if any, suggestions would be posted on how to pull it off while remaining true to the GOP platform. So if the GOP tries, it's pander, pander, pander.

This does not mean that most white Pubs are racist and/or bigoted. But it is what it is. And I will stand on this post with both my size 15 shoes.

[mhking]

Not sure everyone here gets that.

They don't.

And until they do, and stop blowing off blacks as a "defacto extension of the Democratic Party," they'll never learn, either.

The opportunity is there; all that needs to be done is to take that opportunity to deliver the message - the real message, not the one that the Dems see fit to deliver on our behalf.

As I've asked here dozens of times: Do we truly want the Jesse Jacksons of the world delivering OUR message for us?

[RnMomof7]

My soon to be Asian daughter in law LOL when I read an article to her that as far as employment or admission purposes Asians are honorary whites

She told me it is harder for an Asian because they are treated as a majority but they must compete with the very bright Asians for spots..

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

To be fair, there is a theoretically color-blind thread of conservatism which is supposed to go something like "we have the best interests of all Americans at heart?" By default, this includes minorities.

What would be your method of approaching a particular minority group, without promising them something special? How does one dialogue with a minority group, without pandering to them. It seems a bit different than other interest groups, say gun-owners, who have the weight of burdensome legislation to complain about.

It occurs to me that there is the Thomas Sowell approach of repeatedly point out that things like housing regulations, cigarette, and gasoline taxes hurt the poor (and therefore, minorities) the most.

[speekinout]

The opportunity is there; all that needs to be done is to take that opportunity to deliver the message - the real message, not the one that the Dems see fit to deliver on our behalf.

That message has to be delivered by Black Conservatives. I've been working actively on political campaigns for years, and white Conservatives are not welcome in Black neighborhoods. Black Conservatives have a hard enough time, but whites get nowhere.
And getting Blacks from integrated neighborhoods to come out to hear Conservative candidates isn't easy, either. My neighborhood has about 20% Blacks, but they never account for more than about 1% of the audience at any Conservative rally.

[rdb3]

What would be your method of approaching a particular minority group, without promising them something special?

Simple. Treat us like you would yourselves.

[rdb3]

That message has to be delivered by Black Conservatives.

That's not true. For instance, Tom DeLay can deliver his own message better than a surrogate.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Simple. Treat us like you would yourselves.

I thought we were talking politics here. Is there a particular message that you would like to hear from, for instance, the GOP? Or that you think would be useful in persuading blacks of whatever it is that they need to be persuaded of.

I didn't mean "how should I approach a black person on the street, or in the elevator." It was my black friends who long ago pointed out that I was overly nice to other black people [obviously in an effort to counter the leftist/marxist racial division techniques which are so pervasive.] One of them said something like, "dude, why don't you just save time and wear a t-shirt that says 'Hello, I am not a racist'?"

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Treat us like you would yourselves.

At the risk of ruffling feathers here, the recent voting pattern of most blacks does not suggest that this is a message that appeals to them. I'm mean, I think we are all down with "content of their character" over "color of their skin", but the reality is that that particular message doesn't seem to resonate right now.

[rdb3]

I thought we were talking politics here.

We are talking politics, and I meant exactly what I said. Treat us as you would yourselves.

The approach should not be different between ethnic groups. For example, if a conservative campaigns on how tax reduction keeps more money in the voters' pockets and creates jobs, stick with that point. Do black people want to keep more of the money they earn?

Apply this across the board whatever the issue may be. If it's good for white America, then it's equally good for black America. We all didn't arrive here on the same ship, but today, we're all in the same boat.

Lastly, let the Democrats deal with hitting people based on "diversity." That nonsense is not important. It's about time someone stood up and pointed out our similarities instead of our differences.

Then again, what do I know?

[rdb3]

At the risk of ruffling feathers here...

I'm battle tested. I don't have any more feathers to ruffle.

,the recent voting pattern of most blacks does not suggest that this is a message that appeals to them.

True. It's not resonating. But don't stop here. Ask yourself why this is the case.

You answer that question. Think about it, then answer it. I'll wait.

[speekinout]

Then again, what do I know?

Maybe not a whole lot about how hard it is for a white person to get a Black one to listen. If I try to talk to a Black person about tax cuts, I'm trying to say that they'll be able to keep more of the money they earn, and they'll hear that I am trying to take benefits away from poor people.
If I try to talk about school vouchers, they hear racial prejudice.

And so it goes. White people can want to talk to Black ones, but if Black ones don't choose to listen, there isn't any exchange.
And, no, I don't know which side can break the impasse, but I do know that Black Conservatives get farther than white ones.

[desertcry]

Long time Asian residents (the ones who know the true nature of the democrat party)will vote Republican mainly, but new comers(the ones easily decieved by the image projected by hillary's monkeys as fighters for the minority cause and the helpless )will vote democrats.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

I don't have any more feathers to ruffle.

LOL

Ask yourself why this is the case. [That MLK's message doesn't resonate]

Uh, that's easy. Money in the bank. A layup. Because so many people (like a lilly white*, leftwing, spoiled rotten, doesn't-even-pay-his-own-rent friend of mine who sports a "Racism Is Typical" bumpersticker on the Subaru that his daddy bought for him to drive around the country to protest the WTO) have convinced so many blacks that (and I'm quoting this friend verbatim) "racism is woven into the fabric of society," so they need special help, or special status, to have a normal life.

Of course, such people would answer your question by saying that people like me don't really treat blacks equally, when, of course, they are the ones who don't.

This may just be the cynical KayEyeDoubleDee coming out here, but, frankly, I've spent the latter third of my life contemplating this issue and I'm getting fed-up with the whole exercise. And, I'm a damn friendly cat, with a hell of a lot of patience, but I'm tired of trying to explain to my black* friends, why I'm a Republican.

(*Even having to specify the color of a particular friend's skin is nauseating)

[Sabertooth]

Maybe not a whole lot about how hard it is for a white person to get a Black one to listen.

I've never had a problem, ever, in getting a respectful hearing from a black person when I've been open and respectful about my positions... even when those positions weren't what they were used to hearing.

To be honest, as important as Black conservatives are, the conservative message needs to be taken directly into the black communities, in person, by white conservatives. We're the ones they really don't trust, and if we sluff Black outreach onto Black conservaitives, the average Black still won't trust us.

You want to know the #1 reason why Bill Clinton, with all of his loathesome qualities, gets along so well in the Black communities?

He shows up. He's physically present. Yeah, I know he's got Machiavellian motives when he's hanging out in a black church, but even that requires a minimal effort of him that white conservatives are too lazy/scared/complacent to make.

Instead, our side writes off the Black vote, as though Blacks are incapable of understanding and accepting our issues on their merits.

Instead, we act ashamed of who we are and what we believe in, and offer Blacks, at most, Democrat Lite from a distance.

Why should the average black voter give the GOP the time of day?