LOBBYING FAILS, H-1B VISA CAP FALLS to 65,000

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 01, 2003 12:53:47 PM ]via India TImes ^ | OCTOBER 01, 2003 12:53:47 PM | K YATISH RAJAWAT/ECONOMICTIMES.COM

[11th_VA]

MUMBAI: The annual cap for H-1B visas will now be 65,000. This is a sharp drop from the earlier limit of 195,000 visas.

The US plans to enforce this rule from October 1, 2003.

The Indian IT industry has been lobbying hard to freeze H-1B visa limits at current levels. However, these efforts which had the support of some US corporations to retain H-1B visa limits have failed. (Will Europe be the next big hunting ground for Indian IT pros?)

Indian IT professionals are among the largest users of H-1B visas, as US Big Tech shops big from this technical pool. The H1-B visa cap was raised to 195,000 in 02. This particular legislation had a 'sunset' clause. According to this clause, the limit would have (automatically) lapsed on October 1, 2003. Ergo, the H1-B visa annual cap will now fall back to 65,000 visas.

The H1-B visa issue has generated a lot of controversy in the US. Several trade unions representing (local) technology workers have been lobbying against these work permits. The slowdown in the high-tech industry combined with an overall drop in US economic growth has resulted in a number of job losses.

H1-B visa users have been at the receiving end of criticism from unemployed American professionals for taking away their jobs. These visa users are also seen as representative of the trend towards offshore outsourcing trade jargon for moving to cheaper locations like India which is also under flak for spiriting away US jobs.

The visa was created in the early 1950s to give skilled foreign workers a permit to reside in the United States. The H1-B category was added in 1990 to give foreign workers an opportunity to pick up a job with the intention of remaining permanently in the United States.

In 1999, under pressure from high-tech companies and other manufacturers, Congress expanded the limit from 65,000 to 115,000. It raised the cap again to 215,000 in 00 and to 195,000 in 01 and 02.

Top Indian companies have been curtailing the use of H1-B visas for sending employees to the US. Ergo, it unlikely that the offshore outsourcing trend will be affected. Most companies have shifted to the use of L-1 visas (used for intra-company transfers). However, companies whose basic revenue model is supplying manpower to US corporations, ( body-shoppers, are likely to be hit by this move.

[adam_az]

Silly goose, the H1B *IS* government intervention.

Lobbied and paid for by foreign lobbyists.

The purpose of H1B is to fill jobs that there are no US candidates available for after a search is performed.

The H1B rules are violated constantly, and there is no enforcement mechanism.

I'm not opposed to letting foreigners work in the US, but I am opposed to doing it until there is a mechanism to make sure the system isn't abused and works as designed, which it clearly is not right now, and which is a point you have so far failed to address in any post... and which I would dearly like to see you address, since your argument is one based on free trade, NOT on the mechanics of the H1B program which is what we are discussing. It sounds like you are opposed to H1B - but for different reasons than I. You want a FAR more liberal immigration policy, correct?

As an aside... as an IT Security guy, I'm concerned about the risks of letting foreign nationals in to work on key pieces of national infrastructure.

[Lazamataz]

our friend from Texas would be thrilled, as long as they could buy a pair of tennis shoes for $4.95.

You misspelled China.

Hope that helps.

[Texas_Dawg]

What are you smoking today? Not only is that NOT an answer to my question it's a total 180 from what I even stated.

Can you show me one Communist/Socialist country that has overtaken our economy as you seem to think they will? If you don't, then why the fear about them subsidizing their industries? Since you are a capitalist (right?) and understand how stupid it is for them to do that, naturally you shouldn't be worried one bit about them if they want to waste their money on something so stupid, right?

[LTCJ]

Man... how lame these people must feel. How embarrassing it would be to lose your job to some 3rd worlder because he's deemed more efficient than you, dollar for dollar. No wonder they need the government to try to ban people from competing with them.

I'm a stock broker.

LOL, Dawg. From a efficiency and cost standpoint, what's your take on restricting foreign dartboard imports?

[riri]

No, you have it all wrong.

He'd like to wake up in a modern day version of a Steinbeck novel. Where people are working 12 hour days and ending up owing the company money for the gristle, fat and flour they bought for that evening's dinner.

[Lazamataz]

Angry uneducated people are really funny

More proof you are here strictly to troll.

[Texas_Dawg]

He'd like to wake up in a modern day version of a Steinbeck novel. Where people are working 12 hour days and ending up owing the company money for the gristle, fat and flour they bought for that evening's dinner.

Man... if you ask every Communist (like Steinbeck) on every college campus in this country, they will say the exact same thing as you.

[Joe Hadenuf]

LOL!

[Paul Ross]

I think you're right. He's either a shill for COSCO, or other Chinese-front or the Indians. Note he's advocating the abolition of all immigration restraints...i.e., what makes a nation a distinct people. He is preaching the Holy Grail of the Globalists and One-Worlders. No American can do that and claim to still be a patriot.

[adam_az]

Does India allow tens of thousands of US citizens to move to India to work in IT, or in any other field?

When and if they do, I just might. If and when this comes to pass, ask me then.

[riri]

Oh, and you wouldn't?

[Bikers4Bush]

More double speak, still no answer.

China, etc. were on their way to doing just that to our steel industry.

[Texas_Dawg]

Silly goose, the H1B *IS* government intervention. Lobbied and paid for by foreign lobbyists.

OK... Fine. So remove all federal government interventions into immigration with India. Any Indian can come here and live if they want. No government intervention, no H1Bs. Would you be OK with that? (Or are you really just looking for the federal government to protect your salary at everyone else's expense?)

[No.6]

Dawg, you're bizarre.

Look, H1B still exists. There was a (perceived; I happen to disagree) shortage of tech workers which coincided with the top of the dot-bomb era. Many an article talked about Java guys on the coast getting 140k...

... well that was 140k for Java code to be cool and with it and ride the crest of the tech wave before it collapsed. Lotta good that did anyone. But I digress.

Anyway Congress temporarily upped the H1B quota due to the 'crisis.' The crisis is over; no need for emergency visa quotas. If anything, we have something of the opposite, a dearth of positions and too many candidates. Now H1B quotas are back to normal.

Repeat, normal. H1B isn't gone; and you can still go offshore entirely.

As for theory: the worth of a certain salary is dependent on the cost of living for that worker. Where I live, salaries aren't comparable to Bay Area, RTC, or other major metro areas; but the overall cost of living is less.

If we extrapolate to India, we see that because India is amazingly poor, a salary which is unlivable here is rich there. Now, you can say: ah, it is better to employ the guy from the poor country; I can spend less and still get work done (leaving aside any differences in worker quality, which are many). However two problems arise when you consider expanding the supply of workers to the global market and thus devaluing work.

One, this applies to everyone, programmers AND stockbrokers alike, so the net result is that we all have labor value equal to Chinese near-slave labor. I don't think American ideals flourish in those economic conditions.

Two, even if you're in the class of the people who is presently holding lots of capital and would be immune from the immediate effects, another problem arises. If labor is worth virtually nothing, then there is no market for goods, because nobody can afford them.

Capital is worthless unless it MOVES and does work, producing wealth.

[Egon]

Since I've owned my own business for several years, had to do my own marketing, hiring, accounting, etc., I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not respond to my need for a refresher on capitalism.

If it costs both person A and person B $.50 to generate an apple for sale, but person A has to pay an additional $1.00 in taxes, he can't compete with person B.

That's pure capitalism. So if we want to take part in a capitalistic society (which I do) we need to set up some rules so that other countries can't run us out of the game.

[Texas_Dawg]

More double speak, still no answer. China, etc. were on their way to doing just that to our steel industry.

Our steel industry is dying because it can't compete without government props. Like Amtrak. They're both a joke. So they steal from everyone else, call themselves a national security issue (and therefore you're a traitor if you don't support their fedguv props with everyone else's money), and line their own pockets. Like I say, how embarrassing that they are that incompetent.

[Texas_Dawg]

If it costs both person A and person B $.50 to generate an apple for sale, but person A has to pay an additional $1.00 in taxes, he can't compete with person B.

Good. So then let's eliminate the taxes. Yet you want to counter one set of taxes with more taxes/tariffs. That is a horrendous idea that just restricts competition and capital flow even further, as you know being a capitalist.

[riri]

Man... if you ask every Communist (like Steinbeck) on every college campus in this country

Are they the angry educated people?

Someday, I strive to be as fulfilled and happy as you obviously are. And so unfull of hate as you seem to be.

Until, then I have studying to do. But, I will be looking for those commies on campus tonight. Maybe, I can lead the next meeting as I am apparently one of them because I don't want to see American wealth redistrubuted across the globe and I don't partake in drinking from the Bush kool aid well.

[pyx]

Let me guess... you work in IT too.

It must really suck when every breath you draw is done so in fear and angst. Only fear would prevent you from sincerely addressing the three questions I asked you in #66 above.

[Oatka]

Man... how lame these people must feel. How embarrassing it would be to lose your job to some 3rd worlder because he's deemed more efficient than you, dollar for dollar. No wonder they need the government to try to ban people from competing with them.

The law was that the H1Bs must be paid at the same rate as U.S. workers. The Indians I worked with told me they were worked 60+ hours a week but the client was only billed for 40 hours. Guess which head shop the employer started using? The Indians couldn't go elsewhere as their employer held their visas.

Almost every one of these guys said they would set up their own shops in India when their gig was over, so we also trained our competition.

It will be interesting to see your reaction when your job is either outsourced or L-1'd or maybe even some illegal . . .