Perspective: Die-hard Confederates should be reconstructed

St. Augustine Record ^ | 09/27/2003 | Peter Guinta

[sheltonmac]

The South's unconditional surrender in 1865 apparently was unacceptable to today's Neo-Confederates.

They'd like to rewrite history, demonizing Abraham Lincoln and the federal government that forced them to remain in the awful United States against their will.

On top of that, now they are opposing the U.S. Navy's plan to bury the crew of the CSS H.L. Hunley under the American flag next year.

The Hunley was the first submarine to sink an enemy vessel. In 1863, it rammed and fatally damaged the Union warship USS Housatonic with a fixed torpedo, but then the manually driven sub sank on its way home, killing its eight-man crew.

It might have been a lucky shot from the Housatonic, leaks caused by the torpedo explosion, an accidental strike by another Union ship, malfunction of its snorkel valves, damage to its steering planes or getting stuck in the mud.

In any case, the Navy found and raised its remains and plans a full-dress military funeral and burial service on April 17, 2004, in Charleston, S.C. The four-mile funeral procession is expected to draw 10,000 to 20,000 people, many in period costume or Confederate battle dress.

But the Sons of Confederate Veterans, generally a moderate group that works diligently to preserve Southern history and heritage, has a radical wing that is salivating with anger.

One Texas Confederate has drawn 1,600 signatures on a petition saying "the flag of their eternal enemy, the United States of America," must not fly over the Hunley crew's funeral.

To their credit, the funeral's organizers will leave the U.S. flag flying.

After all, the search and preservation of the Hunley artifacts, as well as the funeral itself, were paid for by U.S. taxpayers.

Also, the Hunley crew was born under the Stars and Stripes. The Confederacy was never an internationally recognized nation, so the crewmen also died as citizens of the United States.

They were in rebellion, but they were still Americans.

This whole issue is an insult to all Southerners who fought under the U.S. flag before and since the Civil War.

But it isn't the only outrage by rabid secessionists.

They are also opposing the placement of a statue of Abraham Lincoln in Richmond, Va., the Confederate capital.

According to an article by Bob Moser and published in the Southern Poverty Law Center's magazine "Intelligence Report," which monitors right-wing and hate groups, the U.S. Historical Society announced it was donating a statue of Lincoln to Richmond.

Lincoln visited that city in April 1865 to begin healing the wounds caused by the war.

The proposed life-sized statue has Lincoln resting on a bench, looking sad, his arm around his 12-year-old son, Tad. The base of the statue has a quote from his second inaugural address.

However, the League of the South and the Sons of Confederate Veterans raised a stink, calling Lincoln a tyrant and war criminal. Neo-Confederates are trying to make Lincoln "a figure few history students would recognize: a racist dictator who trashed the Constitution and turned the USA into an imperialist welfare state," Moser's article says.

White supremacist groups have jumped onto the bandwagon. Their motto is "Taking America back starts with taking Lincoln down."

Actually, if it weren't for the forgiving nature of Lincoln, Richmond would be a smoking hole in the ground and hundreds of Confederate leaders -- including Jefferson Davis -- would be hanging from trees from Fredericksburg, Va., to Atlanta.

Robert E. Lee said, "I surrendered as much to Lincoln's goodness as I did to Grant's armies."

Revisionist history to suit a political agenda is as intellectually abhorrent as whitewashing slavery itself. It's racism under a different flag. While it's not a criminal offense, it is a crime against truth and history.

I'm not talking about re-enactors here. These folks just want to live history. But the Neo-Confederate movement is a disguised attempt to change history.

In the end, the Confederacy was out-fought, out-lasted, eventually out-generaled and totally over-matched. It was a criminal idea to start with, and its success would have changed the course of modern history for the worse.

Coming to that realization cost this nation half a million lives.

So I hope that all Neo-Confederates -- 140 years after the fact -- can finally get out of their racist, twisted, angry time machine and join us here in 2003.

[Question_Assumptions]

Several of my ancesters tried to leave in 1861 but you sent a large army down here to shoot them instead.

By the way, none of my ancestors were in the United States in 1861. All of them were in Europe. At various points, they decided to leave Europe because they didn't like it and came here, instead.

[Central_Floridian]

I am not a neo-confederate, but if I recall my Civil War history correctly the Union armies had a very tough time defeating the Southern armies. Had they decided to kill all Confederates they would have most likely lost, at the least, another million men.

[4CJ]

Can't prove it. They were all draftees from day one.

Don't know much about history do ya? My ggggrandfather volunteered TWICE for infantry duty, and once for cavalry. He died in battle, never to see his home, or to even be buried in a marked grave. 4 of his brothers, and their father also volunteered. Every one of them was just a poor dirt farmer, the didn't own slaves, they each left behind their families to defend their homeland from arrogant socialists that wanted to force them to remain in a voluntary union. The same for the 5 blacks that served with them in battle - they volunteered to fight for their homeland.

The North was unable to win the war honorably on the field of battle, thus the yankees resorted to campaigns against old men, women and children - black and white. Destruction of entire towns, the involuntary enslavement of blacks and whites deported to the North never to be seen again. Unable to whip a handful of supposed backwoods yokels, the yankees resorted to destruction of crops and homes, the rape of Southern women unable to defend themselves. Enjoy your "victory" if you call it that. It speaks volumes that you cherish such.

[Non-Sequitur]

At the time of the Lincoln statue uproar I seriously suggested the SCV should say it was a fine idea and should be linked to putting a statue of R E Lee in DC...

There is a statue of Lee in Washington, D.C. It's located in Statuary Hall in the Capitol Building. So shut up about the Lincoln statue in Richmond already.

[Central_Floridian]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought BOTH sides tried to avoid talking about slavery in the beginning of the Civil War.

[Non-Sequitur]

I hate to tell you this but 'Roots' is a work of fiction.

So is 'Gods and Generals' but to hear some of the sothron types around her you would think that Jeff Shaara's book was the gospel truth.

[Central_Floridian]

Cobra Scot whipped slaves? How old is he, 190?

[Paul C. Jesup]

So is 'Gods and Generals' but to hear some of the sothron types around her you would think that Jeff Shaara's book was the gospel truth.

I already know that. If you remember, I posted on a FR thread a couple months ago about 'Gods and Generals'.

[Non-Sequitur]

You are aware Lincoln wanted to ship all the blacks back to Africa.

No he didn't.

[XRdsRev]

John Bell Hood was born in Owningsville Kentucky on June 29, 1831. He lived in Kentucky until he was admitted to West Point as part of the Class of 1853. He didn't set foot in Texas until the end of 1855 when he was assigned to duty at Fort Mason as a 2nd Lt in the 2nd Regiment of Cavalry, United States Army.

Hood did command the Texas Brigade of the Army of Northern Virginia during 1862-1863 and later a Division in Longstreets Corps. In 1864, Hood was given command of the Army of Tennessee. His performance as an Army commander was less than spectacular and his ill fated invasion of Tennessee and the mishandling of his army at Spring Hill, Franklin and Nashville are famous low points in Confederate military history to this day. His performance was so poor at this time that several of his subordinate officers verged on munity (General Forrest being the best known example).

After the war, Hood moved to New Orleans La. where he died of yellow fever on August 30, 1879.

Hood was a native Kentuckian, not a Texan.

[wardaddy]

That's Mr. Despicable to you son!

;>)

[Paul C. Jesup]

Actually he did, it is documented that Lincoln planned to send all the black back to Afica. I think Stainlessbanner has the links to the documents.

Stainlessbanner, could give me some help here please.

[Central_Floridian]

I would question the legitimacy of Southern seccession because a large part of the population was not allowed suffrage.

[Moose4]

The CSA armies held out longer than you would think, given the relative states of manpower and equipment. Once the war started the Southern secession cause was probably doomed because the Union could bring so many more men and so much more materiel to bear. Which, really, is part of the romance of it down here--there's a good reason you hear it referred to as the "Lost Cause." There's a romantic nobility in fighting (and often winning) against superior odds.

The North could afford to win a war of attrition with the South, we couldn't handle one. We didn't have the manufacturing base. And once the Union finally got generals that were willing to use their superiority (Grant) or to go to lengths that the CSA generally didn't (Sherman), it was all over.

Lee's surrender at Appomattox probably prevented a lot more deaths, no doubt. I don't know if the Union would've lost a million men, but had the fighting continued, I've got little doubt that the South in general, and Virginia in particular, would've been ravaged.

}:-)4

[wardaddy]

It warms my heart to see that you feel so good about yourself.

Some things never change. Some Yankees will always feel they are better and morally superior and have an udying need to proclaim to the world as such.

However, here in the real world, aside from a few decent ones that we come across on this forum, most of the North have now voluntarily given up their sovereignty to the enemy. Look around you at how your fellow superior Yankees vote now. A quality not shared by most white (and a few black) Southerners whom they so despise.

Uttered in the spirit of strawmen and red herrings everywhere...which seems to be about all these threads ever degenerate into.

Have a Dixie Day o self righteous one!

[Central_Floridian]

Stephan Alexendar (VP of the CSA) said that "The cornerstone of the Confederay is the permanent and immutable inferiority of the negroe."
From the words of other leading Confederates, it seems to me that they were fighting for the preservation of slavery.

[XRdsRev]

Approximately 4000 Confederate prisoners died at Point Lookout, not 15,000.

There is no credible evidence that any were tortured or willingly murdered by design. The death rate was high in part because of the unexpectedly large number of prisoners who came through that camp (it was originally intended to house about 10,000 but because of a string of Union victories, the prisoner population ballooned to between 12,000-20,000. The facility was not prepared for this and disease was rampant which resulted in a very high mortality rate.

How can anybody take you seriously if you can't even get a simple set of facts straight ?

[wardaddy]

Lincoln did entertain such a notion as did other Yanks but they largely abandoned it after utilizing so many blacks in the Union army and realizing the vote getting gold mine they had uncovered in the Reconstruction South...kind of like today's Dems in that regard.

Lincoln was no doubt an unabashed racist as were about 99.99% of all of his peers in that day....judged by today's strict standards where everyone this side of the SPLC is a passive racist at a minimum.

SB will have more on this and particulars.

I'm sure today's American blacks are rather happy Lincoln never got that one off the ground much. Liberia pretty much sux right about now last time I looked. A lot worse than Detroit.

[wardaddy]

That sounds like Holocaust Denial logic.

[archy]

At the time of the Lincoln statue uproar I seriously suggested the SCV should say it was a fine idea and should be linked to putting a statue of R E Lee in DC maybe with Lee's (possible) quote 'Duty is the most subline word in the English language.' Other countries have done this with 'noble rebels'. In Tokyo one of the biggest statues commemorates Saigo Takamori the leader of the southern (Japanese) revolt against the Tokagawa regime.

Similarly, the Austrians, I believe, award the Order of Maria Theresa to soldiers who have *successfully* disobeyed an order to obtain the correct results. That's a dangerous precedent for an army that runs on discipline, but a necessary one for a free country in control of its military instead of vice-versa.