Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 09/28/2003 10:34:53 AM PDT by nwrep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: *Employment_List; noteworthy; *tech_index; *Election President
ping
2 posted on 09/28/2003 10:43:34 AM PDT by nwrep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: null and void
PING !!

So9

3 posted on 09/28/2003 10:44:12 AM PDT by Servant of the 9 (I am not reptilian, I just have a low basal metabloism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
I’m waiting for these guys to take over. Don’t give me any “free market platitudes”, this is the real threat…
4 posted on 09/28/2003 10:47:09 AM PDT by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
any freepers with college bound children should read this carefully: steer your children out of this field and other related fields, they are history in the USA. the entire semiconductor and software industry will be gone in 10 years, and very little of other tech will survive.

child speech therapists around here get $85/hr.
5 posted on 09/28/2003 10:53:02 AM PDT by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
Moore's law says one can put more and more transistors into the the same space. This means integrated circuits can be more an more complex over time. The demand for new features in electronics will drive more capability into the same space (witness the cell phones with built-in cameras, satellite TV set top boxes with digital recording built-in, etc.).

The overseas design houses are limited to simpler designs. They will grow as more and more things incorporate electronic technology. However, there will also be needs for very complex ICs in ordinary electronic products.

For many years, computer central processing units have been dominated by American designers. When a cell phone chip has the power, functionality, and transistor count of a personal computer, who will design it? Americans.

Because of this, I do not believe the American seminconductor design industry will be outsourced, instead it will be upleveled.

The IC pie is going to get much, much bigger. That is the point many people are missing.
6 posted on 09/28/2003 10:59:20 AM PDT by magellan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
It's about money.

If a company can get more bang for the buck by going abroad it will do so. Our government will first and foremost protect the capital of investors and only after that is done will it seek to protect jobs of American workers.

8 posted on 09/28/2003 10:59:49 AM PDT by liberallarry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
WE - AMERICA - have one big major advantage - that is if we don't "Dumb Down" our children any more....

We attained our great level from MOTIVATION, NECESSITY, and IMAGINATION.

The American inventiveness - due to our CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM - has been unsurpassed and all the other countries in the world are jealously trying to steal it.

But you can't steal an attitude! You CAN only destroy it from within.

These three things are under attack in our publik skulz.

Through the systematic use of DRUGS on our children, especially the male - sorry but males have tetostrone which is the main source of motivation and inventiveness, thanks to the females of the species! I know this sounds a bit sexist but facts are facts. the male mind is more suited for the wild creations, whereas the female mind is perfect for making our wild creations workable. Hey! It's a partnership!

Through drugs, "PC Speech", and other left-wing radical ideas being hammered into the childrens' minds, our kids are lacking in imagination, concentration, and are perfect for being little SLAVE-ZOMBIES - and if that doesn't work - import illegal aliens for slave labor and get rid of the American Mind.
10 posted on 09/28/2003 11:06:11 AM PDT by steplock (www.FOCUS.GOHOTSPRINGS.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
Saxenian described the redistribution of the industry not as outsourcing but as a new global division of labor

Pitiful...So as long as the engineers stay here, all this means is that it's a little longer trek to the shop floor...

Most people don't hang out at FR so they just don't get it...This is the very beginning of a very large exodus to eliminate the US of the middle class...

And we're expected to be proud of the group that is behind it...

12 posted on 09/28/2003 11:09:27 AM PDT by Iscool
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
I fear that the new world order is coming, and it will be built with America on her knees. I pray to God that I won't be alive to see it...

Technology jobs are all that we have left other than the service industry. Once tech is gone we are finished.

Read the book, The Creature From Jeykl Island if you want your eyes to be opened.

35 posted on 09/28/2003 1:01:19 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
First, they came for the farmers, and I paid no attention. Next, they came for the unionworkers, and I rejoiced. Then, the came for the stateworkers ,and I cheered. Now, they come for me....
36 posted on 09/28/2003 1:17:37 PM PDT by ghostrider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
Well I guess I'll tell my high school freshman to forget about pursuing that mechanical engineering degree he covets so badly.

Jeez.

47 posted on 09/28/2003 2:22:56 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Texas_Dawg
Oh boy, this is great! More Americans lose their jobs!

''The more we cut away at the incentives for people in the U.S. to take up engineering careers, the more we undermine out ability to innovate."

Yay! < Texas_Dawg_Mode>

48 posted on 09/28/2003 2:24:36 PM PDT by Lazamataz (I am the extended middle finger in the fist of life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
Why on Earth would a bright person want to become an EE? Oh, because his father thought it would be a good career move . . . the same father who wanted him to go into nuclear engineering, just months before Three Mile Island . . . I'm speaking hypothetically, of course.
60 posted on 09/28/2003 3:11:41 PM PDT by JoeSchem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
In the meantime - we have this:

IBM Challenges Taiwan's Chip Makers

Big Blue continues to increase its contract chip-making business.

Sumner Lemon, IDG News Service
Thursday, April 17, 2003

The competitive threat to Taiwan's contract chip makers was supposed to come from Shanghai, not East Fishkill, New York.

The rise of Chinese chip makers, like Semiconductor Manufacturing International (SMIC) and Grace Semiconductor Manufacturing, was expected by some observers to mark the beginning of a shift in the center of contract chip making from Taiwan to China. But that was before IBM began an aggressive expansion of its own contract chip-making business.

Contract chip makers, commonly called foundries, produce chips for companies, such as Via Technologies and Nvidia, among many others, that don't have their own chip fabrication plants (fabs).

The business is dominated today by two Taiwanese companies, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing (TSMC) and United Microelectronics (UMC), which together are expected to account for 63 percent of the total foundry market in 2003, according to an estimate by Salomon Smith Barney. TSMC alone will account for 44 percent of the market, it said.

Changing Business Plan

IBM's push to expand its foundry business comes as the contract chip-making business is changing. The industry is showing signs of segmenting into two layers: one comprised of companies that produce chips in volume using older chip-making technologies and another consisting of companies able to produce high-end chips using cutting-edge processes and materials.

One reason for the change in the dynamics of the foundry industry is the increasing cost of designing chips for the latest generations of chip-making technology, said Morris Chang, the chairman of TSMC and an executive often credited with developing the foundry business model.

"The number of new customers has drastically decreased in each new generation [of chip-making technology]," Chang said, noting that chip designers want to be confident that the increased investments required to design chips for the latest process technologies will pay off.

"It's a new game," he said. "It's a situation that clearly favors the leaders."

Leading the Way

IBM is one of those leaders, having led the push into many high-end chip production technologies, and will increasingly compete against TSMC for high-end foundry business while Chinese foundries compete for business at the low end of the market, Chang said.

"IBM have always had the best [chip-making] processes," said Martin Kidgell , the Asia-Pacific managing director of National Semiconductor, which uses TSMC to manufacture digital processors. "They want to come out and play and be a much bigger fish in this pond. I see that as competition for TSMC and UMC."

IBM has already made inroads into the high-end foundry business, signing a deal with Nvidia to manufacture its next generation of

In addition to Nvidia, IBM has signed deals with Qualcomm and Xilinx, one of UMC's major customers, to manufacture chips under contract. IBM has also signed an agreement to jointly develop next-generation process technologies with Advanced Micro Devices. That deal ended a similar agreement between AMD and UMC and has raised questions about whether the two companies would move ahead with plans to build a joint-venture fab in Singapore.

Under Pressure<

IBM's stepped-up foundry efforts will put pressure on TSMC and UMC thanks to the company's manufacturing prowess with advanced chip-making technologies, but Big Blue isn't likely to threaten their dominance of the foundry business anytime soon.

"It's not automatic that you would necessarily leap to the lowest available geometry," Kidgell said, referring to process technologies that are used to make chips. "What we're all looking for is the most cost-effective manufacturers in the volume sweet spot. I can see that, like in any industry, there will be people leading with the technology but they won't necessarily be the volume manufacturers."

Moreover, IBM will have to adopt the shorter manufacturing lead times and increased flexibility that are required of contract chip makers.

"IBM, as a foundry, they've never been particularly easy to deal with in terms of the flexibility of the way you could place orders with them," Kidgell said. "They traditionally tended to have longer lead times and less ability to move around your schedules as the end customers demanded."

Challenges Ahead

IBM's push to grow its foundry business isn't the only challenge that Taiwan's foundries face. On the low end of the market, the Chinese foundries pose a cost-effective alternative to TSMC and UMC for chips that are sold into the Chinese market. Chinese foundries can reduce manufacturing costs by up to 30 percent, largely due to value-added tariffs that are placed on chips imported into China, Kidgell said.

Intent on making its presence felt in China, TSMC last year filed an application with the Taiwanese government to build a fab in Shanghai.

The lengthy approval process for TSMC's application, now in its eighth month, doesn't mean that the company is sitting on the sidelines while its Chinese rivals carve out an insurmountable lead in China's foundry market. "You've got to build up a few years of experience and trust with these companies because you're staking your future on them," Kidgell said.


63 posted on 09/28/2003 3:34:57 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Yossarian
Ping
65 posted on 09/28/2003 8:29:11 PM PDT by Denver Ditdat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: nwrep
Maybe it's not such a good idea to give Chinese and Asian students an American education after all, especially if they leave the States for their homeland.

But I guess it's RACIST to suggest this...

95 posted on 10/01/2003 1:45:40 AM PDT by Benrand
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson