Bitter Russian Church wants peace with Rome

gateway2russia.com ^ | 27 September 2003 16:13 | gazeta.ru

[Destro]

27 September 2003 16:13

Bitter Russian Church wants peace with Rome

The Russian Orthodox Church ardently desires reconciliation with Roman Catholics to end a 1,000-year rift, even if it is still bitter about perceived insults in recent years, a high official said on Saturday. "Christian unity is important to defend our common values amid the secularisation of society," the Moscow Patriarchate's Secretary for External Relations told Reuters in an interview. "In Catholics we see brethren and share a heritage of sacred tradition. The things which divide us are not so important in comparison," said Archpriest Nikolai Balashov.

Balashov is part of Patriarch Alexiy's delegation now visiting Estonia, an ex-Soviet Baltic state with a big Russian minority which is due to join the European Union next May. President Vladimir Putin called last week for the Orthodox to improve their ties with the Vatican in light of Russia's new European integration. Putin said he personally was keen to receive the pope in Moscow. Orthodox and Catholics split in 1054 when the Roman Pontiff and the Patriarch of Constantinople condemned each other over issues of theology and politics. Relations have been tense ever since, although mutual 'excommunications' were lifted in 1965.

Pope John Paul has made no secret of his desire to reunite the Churches, but relations have instead soured as Orthodox leaders accuse the Vatican of trying to steal their flock and Catholics decry Moscow's lingering 'Soviet mentality'. "We feel a deep sense of betrayal," said Balashov. "Because in Soviet times, we knew Christians on the other side of the Iron Curtain were our friends and were praying for us. But then the attitude changed and we became like competitors in Russia."

The issues that most irritate ties are the expansion of Catholic activity in traditional Orthodox areas and the cells of Eastern Christians especially in Ukraine who have broken with Moscow and declared fidelity to the pope. Balashov said the problem was not so much the fact of these developments over the past 15 years as the manner in which they were carried out that angered Moscow. He said it was only natural that Roman Catholic priests be allowed to care for the minority of Catholics living in Russia, and perhaps also assist the Orthodox Church to regain full strength after 70 years of communist persecution.

It was also normal that the Eastern Catholic Church in Ukraine, which was annihilated at the request of Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, would revive after the Soviet Union collapsed. Instead they saw "an invasion of well educated Catholic missionaries" who seemed to be competing with instead of helping the Orthodox, while Ukraine erupted in uncivilised feuds over the division of church property. "There has to be mutual respect," Balashov said, noting that until there was, the Moscow patriarch would not meet with the pope. "There is no sense simply to meet before cameras and pretend we have no problems," he said.

[http://gazeta.ru/]

[Destro]

Sort of like wolves in sheeps clothing?

[AgThorn]

Amen to that! The ultimate example of "power corrupts" is the history of the Catholic Church. .. I would think that the ultimate way to merge and heal this 1000 year division would be to name a Russion, Ukranian, or other "eastern" Pope .. one that has a track record of wanting to reconcile.

[Incorrigible]

C'mon Destro!  Where's the better food?  Russia?  Greece?  or Italy?

See, the Pope belongs in Rome!  :-)

 

Despite all the problems, and though it probably wont happen in my lifetime, the reunification of the Universal Church is a good thing.

[inPhase]

the reunification of the Universal Church is a good thing.

Yes it is a good thing.
But a new Pope may come from a different school of thought. Those Cardinals, your eminence,
are a diverse bunch. Really different stripes.
Reminds me of transforming the military a bit.

[Nov3]

I pray this happens. I want to see the church become universal again.

[Cicero]

Good if true. The Russian Patriarch has done everything he can to derail the talks and close down Catholic and Protestant churches who try to have any kind of presence in Russia. Maybe others in the Russian Orthodox Church would like to see a rapprochment, but there have been absolutely no signs that the present leadership does.

Yes, the Catholic Church has its warts. So do the Orthodox Churches. For instance, there's hardly a bishop in the Russian Orthodox Church who wasn't a KGB agent. True, it was hard to avoid, but it still wasn't pleasant.

[Malcolm]

LOL, Catholics amuse me to no end. There never will be a universal Church. I'm a Christian, and I know for a fact I will never be a member of it. "...many are called but FEW are chosen." I'm not an expert on the Orthodox Church, but if their doctrine is as clearly non-scriptural as the Catholic Church is, (penance vs repentance, celibate clergy, call no man your Father, etc), then their unification will mean as much as Taco Bell's buyout or Del Taco. It amazes me that anyone who calls Jesus lord of his life would even consider a church that did not have the Bible as it's EXCLUSIVE point of reference. The Word was made Flesh, so the Word (Bible) is our one and only guide; "you err, because you know not the scriptures nor the power of G-d." Jesus said to leave such as these alone: "if the blind lead the blind, BOTH will fall into a ditch." Yes sir, Lord; I'll be glad to do just that.....

[tiamat]

Your smug attitude does yourself and your faith no favors.

Tia

[Destro]

The Orthodox Church (when East and West were of the same rite) canonized the New Testament books in the order you have them today. There was no approved New Testament "scripture" till the first Ecumenical Council of Bishops put them in order and through out the rest. Hell if it was not for those Eastern Bishops you would be quoting from the Gospel of St. Thomas and the Gospel of St. Mary.

By the way how can you Protestants hold such an exclusive link and knowledge to God when your like was not seen until the Middle Ages?

PS: Islam is also a Sola Scriptura religion.

[Destro]

See my #9

[Destro]

That should read: There was no approved New Testament "scripture" till the first Ecumenical Councils of Bishops put them in order and threw out the rest.

[Destro]

For instance, there's hardly a bishop in the Russian Orthodox Church who wasn't a KGB agent.

I am not doubting, but I have not ever read an authoritative account of this. It is one of those things we all assume is true when we hear it, but is it?

[tiamat]

Good for you. ,br> Good point about Islam as well. Might point out the fact that the bible has been run through the mill many times with translations, ( some of which had mistakes ) AND it has been altered many times to suit political whims. Parts of it MAY have been divinly inspired but it has been corrupted by PEOPLE for worldly reasons.

I really find the "gloating " that some folks do over religeon to be truly obnoxious.
Every once in a while I will read a post by a supposed Christian who thinks they have all of the answers, and it is a lot like little kids saying , "When Daddy comes home you are REALLY gonna get it! Nyah! But *I'M* not".
Tell you tue, if I heard MY daughter behaving like that, I'd smack her for being an unkind, gloating brat! LOL!

Tia

[David1]

This is a link that responds to prot arguments against Catholics: http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZINDEX.HTM

[David1]

What are you talking about??? We all know that the Bible fell from the sky one day with a nice red ribbon and bow wrapped around it.

[Kenny Bunk]

...there's hardly a bishop in the Russian Orthodox Church who wasn't a KGB agent.

destro, you can, unfortunately, take that statement to the bank.

The KGB ran the Russian, and other COMBLOC Orthodox Churches. They used the church to infiltrate agents into orthodox monasteries and church posts in, among other places, the Middle East and of course, to keep tabs on churchgoers.

The miracle is that the churches were not totally compromised, that is many bishops and priests were in effect, "double agents,"who were trying to preserve their faith and traditions somehow. Nowadays, figuring out who's who is the problem.

In China, there is, even now, an entire Roman Catholic Church run by the CHICOM state. There is also an underground church directed from Rome, which is persecuted severely.

Nor were the Communist efforts to undermine and subvert religion directed solely at the Catholic Churches, including the Orthodox. They did a damn good job of running the World Council of Churches, and infiltrated the Lutheran Church of East Germany very thoroughly. Pretty damn confusing.

[fqued]

That should read: There was no approved New Testament "scripture" till the first Ecumenical Councils of Bishops put them in order and threw out the rest.


Actually, that is rather simplistic and misleading.
From the early church (before 100 a.d.), certain books were considered authoritative.
By the time of Irenaeus, 180 a.d, there was, in essence, a canon of the New Testament, with only a couple minor epistles up in the air.

303 a.d, Diocletian declared that the Christian books were to be destroyed. what but those that were "canonical?"

Athenasius, Jerome, and Augustine all proclaimed the 27-book canon of the New Testament.

What the Ecumenical Councils (all Churches, not the Eastern Orthodox of today), especially the Synod of Hippo in 393 a.d., did was merely approve WHAT WAS ALREADY KNOWN AND ACCEPTED.

[Destro]

All I said is I have not read a scholarly exploration of this to back up the statement.

[Destro]

Well yea.

[fqued]

Thank you.