Anger at Vatican plan to ban altar girls

Gaurdian (UK) ^ | 24 September 2003 | John Hooper

[nickcarraway]

Is it harder to keep young males in the Church then young females?

[SouthernFreebird]

/eyeroll... if it makes you feel better to believe the church will be alright once alter girls are no more than so be it. I think they have larger problems they need to deal with. This looks like smokescreen to me.

And your outrage should be at those who commited and allowed the acts I only spoke of.

[wideawake]

Neither of these "reasons" hold water (and pardon the multiple puns).

Puns are fine. Painfully bad leaps of logic are not.

Yes, these excuses are spouted out by many, but so what?

The number of people arguing on behalf of the truth is immaterial. The truth is not.

1. Whether it started out as act of disobedience or not is neither here nor there.

If one is a Christian, one believes that all the pain and suffering in the world derives from a single act of disobedience. Loving God and serving him is consequential. It is not "neither here nor there."

Rosa Parks refusing to move to the back of the bus was an act of disobedience, and thank God for that.

This is the worst analogy I have seen in a while. If Rosa Parks had pushed the driver out of his seat at gunpoint and tried to drive the bus, you might have had a point. As it stands, you don't.

The origins of the practice have nothing to do with whether it is right or wrong TODAY.

In other words, all morality is purely situational. There is no right or wrong, there is only what is "right or wrong TODAY", as you put it.

This practice does not interfere with recruitment to the priesthood.

It certainly does and the statistics prove it. Wherever the practice is common there are next to no seminarians. Wherever the practice is rare, there are many.

Boys can still be altar boys, and if it influences them to become priests, then great.

At the age of 8-12 most boys would rather die than join a club with girls in it. The feminization of the acolytate is a sure way of discouraging boys from joining.

Whether or not there is a girl standing next to a 10 - 14 year old boy (the age of altar servers) during the mass is not going to affect a young man's decision to enter the priesthood when he is 18 - 20.

It affects his decision to stand at the altar in the first place.

Human nature does not change, no matter how radical feminist church-wreckers wish that it would.

[A CA Guy]

The King of England wanted a divorce from his wife and the Pope said no. A new Christian faith who's origin was wanting a certain sin acceptable.

[nickcarraway]

I still don't understand why this alienates women.

Women have suffered from the lack of men devoted to the Church, because the end up ``unequally yoked,'' or with some similar problem.

[Lovergirl]

I agree and thank you for saying that. I have never approved of girls serving Mass.

[hilaryrhymeswithrich]

You sound learned :)...here is a question for you; After communion is given and you say amen, I was taught not to make the sign of the cross because it detracts from the moment and draws attention to yourself and away from God. My Dad always crosses himself and in our Church it runs about 70/30 who cross themselves after communion......any wisdom?

[sitetest]

Dear mtbopfuyn,

We who are devout Catholics do not obey the Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Catholic Church blindly. We obey him with our eyes wide open, embracing with love and joy the Truth of Catholic Faith.


sitetest

[nickcarraway]

Is the reason women are more active in the Church because the Church is ``alienating'' men, or is their a reason that women, by nature, are more likely to be active in the Church[or religion in general?] then men, especially during youth?

[nickcarraway]

Is the reason women are more active in the Church because the Church is ``alienating'' men, or is their a reason that women, by nature, are more likely to be active in the Church[or religion in general?] then men, especially during youth?

[nickcarraway]

ping

[nickcarraway]

ping

[BlackVeil]

Like when the King of England wanted a divorce and the Pope said no.

Why did the king & the pope divorce? They seemed so happy together!

Double LOL! It is posts like that which make the board fun.

[sinkspur]

Is it harder to keep young males in the Church then young females?

Define "young." Most Catholic parents bring their kids to Mass with them, even as teenagers.

I don't know of many parishes that rely on "young males" 18 and over to serve at Mass, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Even in the old days, when I was serving Mass, most Catholic boys were not altar servers, and only a handful ever darkened the door of a seminary, much less ever reached ordination.

This "well, we've got to restrict altar service to boys so we'll have future priests" is an old wives tale, in my experience.

[Lorianne]

I don't think barring altar girls is a deciding factor, it is one more factor on the heap. There are other issues in the article which would discourage women's participation, such as women being lay ministers, etc. It's the aggregate of discouragement of women being active in some ministries which I think will become discouraging for many women.

Also, I think the rulings would enforce very ethnocentric ideas of participation. I attended Catholic services in Africa and they were quite lively to say the least ... and culturally appropriate (IMO). I wonder what these people will think of their cultural expressions being banned in Mass, or even on church property?

I don't know the answer, I simply find it interesting to contemplate why the Church would be taking such positions.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

and the lack of men active in their children's religious education.

This is no different than teachers in the schools of America... most are women. Could it be that women are drawn more to teaching, than men are?

[hilaryrhymeswithrich]

I too am surprised by the left-lean of many Catholics when the liberal platform seems to go against almost all Church teachings. I think it has shifted in recent years, though. When our Irish priest made a rude comment about Bush, he noticed a very quiet, cold congregation (and we usuallly love him and laugh at appropriate things) and back tracked pretty darn quickly.

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

"What this article doesn't reveal is that there are also proposed restrictions on communion in the hand and under both kinds, both of which would never fly in the United States."

Oh, I don't know, sinkspur. I think most folks would accept it, especially if accompanied by any decent catechesis.

I prefer to receive in the hands, but I would gladly obey the Church if she instructed me otherwise.

As to the other bit, about restricting quotes from non-sacred sources, I'd be willing to bet that this part has been mangled.


sitetest

[Hawkeye's Girl]

I loved being an altar girl. It was fun.

That said, I don't really have a problem with just boys being altar servers as long as girls can still participate in Mass by bringing up the gifts, lecturing, and so on.

I agree that our priests need to remain guys, but there's got to be stuff us chicks can do to be involved in the Church also.

[Conservababe]

I have enjoyed this thread...except for the overt Catholic bashing from some posters.

I will put in my two cents worth.

If the Catholic Church withstood guitar masses, they can remain steadfast forever.

LOL