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Anger at Vatican plan to ban altar girls
Gaurdian (UK) ^ | 24 September 2003 | John Hooper

Posted on 09/24/2003 3:06:09 PM PDT by Lorianne

A heated battle has been joined in the Vatican between moderates and conservatives over a directive, called for by the Pope, that would bar altar girls and stop millions of Roman Catholics around the world dancing, or even clapping, in their churches. _________________

Anger at Vatican plan to ban altar girls

John Hooper in Rome Wednesday September 24, 2003 The Guardian

A heated battle has been joined in the Vatican between moderates and conservatives over a directive, called for by the Pope, that would bar altar girls and stop millions of Roman Catholics around the world dancing, or even clapping, in their churches. The document would also clamp down on adult, lay pastoral assistants. It would forbid priests during sermons quoting from ethical texts other than the Gospels. And it would rank services jointly celebrated with Protestant ministers or Orthodox priests alongside black masses as one of the four "most serious" abuses

In a clear effort to block, or, at least dilute, the measure, a leaked text of the draft was this week published in Jesus, the monthly review of the Society of St Paul, an international Catholic organisation.

One Vatican insider was yesterday quoted by the Rome newspaper Il Messaggero as saying it contained "idiocies so mad as to incite fear".

The document was compiled by officials from two Vatican ministries, responsible for doctrine and liturgy, after the Pope called earlier this year for new guidelines on the way masses are held. Many clerics had complained that liberalisation and experiment in recent decades had left them not knowing what was allowed.

Catholics in western, and particularly northern, Europe are likely to be most taken aback by the Vatican officials' determination to block one of the few means of participation in church ritual for women.

The draft text states that priests should only allow girls to help them at mass if they have a special dispensation from their bishop and there is "just cause", which Italian commentators took to mean an absence of boys. According to the leaked draft, priests ought "never to feel themselves obliged to recruit girls".

In developing countries, where the Catholic church now has most of its members, the most controversial injunction will be the one banning "applause and dance within the place of worship, even outside the celebration of [mass]".

Dance is an integral part of worship in Africa and Asia and has figured in numerous services attended by the Pope. Clapping is also commonplace in Italy at weddings, baptisms and even during funerals.

The draft "instruction" was reportedly tabled in June and came in for stiff criticism at a meeting of the two departments. A final version is due to be published this year.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: altargirls; catholic; catholiclist; religion
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This seems to be a suicidal religion.
1 posted on 09/24/2003 3:06:09 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne
Islam, practicing something akin to the inquisition, is the religion that's really looking bad these days.
2 posted on 09/24/2003 3:11:50 PM PDT by thinktwice
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To: thinktwice
I can't argue with that.
3 posted on 09/24/2003 3:12:32 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne
Unbelievable. We complain about feminazis, about leftists claiming our young girls and twisting them, and they want to ban something that keeps at least some of them grounded? Are they insane?

I was raised Catholic, and this makes my blood boil.
4 posted on 09/24/2003 3:13:22 PM PDT by Windcatcher
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To: Lorianne
Why is it a suicidal religion?
5 posted on 09/24/2003 3:13:54 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Lorianne
If it's true that the Pope backs such measures, I wonder what the reasoning is? Can anyone shed some light on this?
6 posted on 09/24/2003 3:14:48 PM PDT by ellery
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To: Lorianne
Will conservatism now sweep throughout the Church?
7 posted on 09/24/2003 3:15:11 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
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To: ellery
The reasoning is twofold:

(1) The introduction of altar girls began as an act of disobedience.

(2) Traditionally, the acolytate is the early training ground for priests. The introduction of girls, who cannot be priests, interferes with recruitment for the priestly ministry.

8 posted on 09/24/2003 3:17:21 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Lorianne
This Vatican topic went to 800 posts yesterday. I hope it doesn't today - my eyes have still not recovered.as
9 posted on 09/24/2003 3:19:06 PM PDT by beelzepug ("As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!!!")
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To: Lorianne
This seems to be a suicidal religion.

I'm sure that you, in your profound ignorance, believe that.

Many have thought so in the past.

Many will think so long after you're gone.

And long after you're gone, the Mass will still be celebrated every day by more than a billion Catholics.

10 posted on 09/24/2003 3:19:08 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: ellery
Because the allowance to use altar girls was granted only to the bishops to be used only in extraordinary cases, but has unsurprisingly been abused, much like extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist.
11 posted on 09/24/2003 3:20:29 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
The anti-Church types are just using this as a tool to attack the Church, including the anti-Catholic types on FR. It's a draft that two people put together and it is, indeed, a draft.

Besides, the Church isn't a democracy, it has always offered sound reasoning behind all of it's decisions, and if someone doesn't like it enough to leave, please don't let the door hit you on the ass as I play my imaginary violin.

12 posted on 09/24/2003 3:20:58 PM PDT by mbraynard
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To: Lorianne
In think the Catholic church has far more serious problems to address rather than worrying about little girls or hand-clapping.
13 posted on 09/24/2003 3:21:24 PM PDT by stanz (Those who don't believe in evolution should go jump off the flat edge of the Earth.)
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To: Windcatcher
Unbelievable. We complain about feminazis, about leftists claiming our young girls and twisting them, and they want to ban something that keeps at least some of them grounded?

It does not keep young women orthodox.

The introduction of altar girls was engineered by the women's ordination movement, which is a radical feminist movement.

I was raised Catholic, and this makes my blood boil.

This means that you were poorly catechized.

14 posted on 09/24/2003 3:21:41 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: mbraynard
Not being a member of your church, there won't be a need for me to leave. I just wonder if this will reinforce more conservativism amongst the parishoners, a return to their Christian roots. That is always a worthy endeavor, in my opinion.
15 posted on 09/24/2003 3:23:11 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
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To: nickcarraway
They don't have enough priests and they are working very hard to alienate their largest group of active members, women.
16 posted on 09/24/2003 3:23:16 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne; *Catholic_list
Would you care to explain that, or should we assume it's been retracted?
17 posted on 09/24/2003 3:23:26 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Will conservatism now sweep throughout the Church?

LOL! Oh the horror, the HORror!

Here's hoping...

18 posted on 09/24/2003 3:24:06 PM PDT by RosieCotton
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To: stanz
In think the Catholic church has far more serious problems to address rather than worrying about little girls or hand-clapping.

The problems are all of a piece.

There is an old theological principle called lex orandi, lex credendi, which essentially means that the way in which you worship God reflects the way you think about God.

Clapping hands to congratulate creatures at a time specifically reserved for reverent song or silent prayer to God implies that creatures deserve more attention than God in His own house.

Likewise, a disregard for the complementarity inherent in God's creation reflects a disregard for God's ordering of nature and of ordering the Church.

19 posted on 09/24/2003 3:25:41 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator


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