Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Anger at Vatican plan to ban altar girls
Gaurdian (UK) ^ | 24 September 2003 | John Hooper

Posted on 09/24/2003 3:06:09 PM PDT by Lorianne

A heated battle has been joined in the Vatican between moderates and conservatives over a directive, called for by the Pope, that would bar altar girls and stop millions of Roman Catholics around the world dancing, or even clapping, in their churches. _________________

Anger at Vatican plan to ban altar girls

John Hooper in Rome Wednesday September 24, 2003 The Guardian

A heated battle has been joined in the Vatican between moderates and conservatives over a directive, called for by the Pope, that would bar altar girls and stop millions of Roman Catholics around the world dancing, or even clapping, in their churches. The document would also clamp down on adult, lay pastoral assistants. It would forbid priests during sermons quoting from ethical texts other than the Gospels. And it would rank services jointly celebrated with Protestant ministers or Orthodox priests alongside black masses as one of the four "most serious" abuses

In a clear effort to block, or, at least dilute, the measure, a leaked text of the draft was this week published in Jesus, the monthly review of the Society of St Paul, an international Catholic organisation.

One Vatican insider was yesterday quoted by the Rome newspaper Il Messaggero as saying it contained "idiocies so mad as to incite fear".

The document was compiled by officials from two Vatican ministries, responsible for doctrine and liturgy, after the Pope called earlier this year for new guidelines on the way masses are held. Many clerics had complained that liberalisation and experiment in recent decades had left them not knowing what was allowed.

Catholics in western, and particularly northern, Europe are likely to be most taken aback by the Vatican officials' determination to block one of the few means of participation in church ritual for women.

The draft text states that priests should only allow girls to help them at mass if they have a special dispensation from their bishop and there is "just cause", which Italian commentators took to mean an absence of boys. According to the leaked draft, priests ought "never to feel themselves obliged to recruit girls".

In developing countries, where the Catholic church now has most of its members, the most controversial injunction will be the one banning "applause and dance within the place of worship, even outside the celebration of [mass]".

Dance is an integral part of worship in Africa and Asia and has figured in numerous services attended by the Pope. Clapping is also commonplace in Italy at weddings, baptisms and even during funerals.

The draft "instruction" was reportedly tabled in June and came in for stiff criticism at a meeting of the two departments. A final version is due to be published this year.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: altargirls; catholic; catholiclist; religion
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 401-416 next last
To: Lorianne
They don't have enough priests and they are working very hard to alienate their largest group of active members, women.

Speak for yourself...I see this as a good thing. Women have plenty of other ways to serve.

Men and women both have roles within the Church - and in society, for that matter. They're different. That's not a bad thing.

21 posted on 09/24/2003 3:25:59 PM PDT by RosieCotton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SouthernFreebird
Bigot.
22 posted on 09/24/2003 3:26:20 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: wideawake
I just find it ODD that there are girls doing the job of altar boys. It is part of the hippy dippy stuff that started in when I was in Cath grade school in the late 70's...kumbaya and all that, the holding hands.

The thing that got me really incensed was a younger priest, right after 911, going on about how we essentially deserved it, the Golden Calf and so forth. I am not a Bible scholar so I'm not sure what chapter and verse, but to choose that as the basis of your homily was offensive. There is a certain leftism in the Church, IMO. The Church helps many but there is too much lefty self-sacrifice for my tastes.

23 posted on 09/24/2003 3:26:27 PM PDT by Benrand
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Lorianne
And this bothers you, why?
24 posted on 09/24/2003 3:26:45 PM PDT by fml
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: RosieCotton
They're different. That's not a bad thing.

It should be a reason for rejoicing!

25 posted on 09/24/2003 3:26:49 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: beelzepug
"my eyes have still not recovered.as"

Delete the final 'as'. Like I said, my eyes.
26 posted on 09/24/2003 3:27:00 PM PDT by beelzepug ("As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!!!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Lorianne
Suicidal? Catholicism was the original Christian faith starting with the Jews who followed Christ.

Other main branches broke off and began when they wanted to have a church where there sin is accepted.
Like when the King of England wanted a divorce and the Pope said no.
27 posted on 09/24/2003 3:27:18 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pan_Yans Wife
It should be a reason for rejoicing!

Exactly!

28 posted on 09/24/2003 3:27:23 PM PDT by RosieCotton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: wideawake
It does not keep young women orthodox.

While this is true, it is also true that banning them will not keep them Catholic. And it will not encourage them to raise their children Catholic.

29 posted on 09/24/2003 3:27:47 PM PDT by Lorianne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Lorianne
This seems to be a suicidal religion.

Nothing like being really out of touch.
30 posted on 09/24/2003 3:28:27 PM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wideawake
Thanks for a cogent, straightforward response.
31 posted on 09/24/2003 3:29:06 PM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: wideawake
That all pales in comparison to the sex scandals that the church finds itself embroiled in. That should be the Vatican's top priority, not how to make the church even less attractive to future parishioners.
32 posted on 09/24/2003 3:29:08 PM PDT by stanz (Those who don't believe in evolution should go jump off the flat edge of the Earth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Lorianne
They don't have enough priests and they are working very hard to alienate their largest group of active members, women.

Any woman who is "alienated" by an all-male acolytate is equally alienated by an all-male priesthood.

If certain women believe that Church is meant as an exercise in affirmative action identity politics, then they were never Catholics in the first place.

No woman in my family is fooled by leftist self-worship masquerading as Catholic worship.

33 posted on 09/24/2003 3:29:34 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: stanz
That all pales in comparison to the sex scandals that the church finds itself embroiled in.

The godless want the Church to do nothing else because of the scandals of a few. Sorry, but it's not going to happen.

34 posted on 09/24/2003 3:30:46 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: stanz
That all pales in comparison to the sex scandals that the church finds itself embroiled in. That should be the Vatican's top priority, not how to make the church even less attractive to future parishioners.

Bringing the Church back to her roots, cracking down on abuses (even small ones) is a good way to flush out the bad priests. It's a start.

I'll leave a more detailed response to someone else.

35 posted on 09/24/2003 3:31:23 PM PDT by RosieCotton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Petronski
The church does need to address the pedophilia issue, but it must not become paralyzed and neglect the needs of the entire church. If that happens, then millions of people will suffer.
36 posted on 09/24/2003 3:32:45 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: fml
It doesnt' "bother" me, it fascinates me. It's fascninating to contemplate the logic of an organization utterly dependent for its survivial on women (and on non-European peoples) go out of its way to offend those very people. These are the very people who will make the decision whether to bring the next generation up Catholic.
37 posted on 09/24/2003 3:32:59 PM PDT by Lorianne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: stanz
That all pales in comparison to the sex scandals that the church finds itself embroiled in.

The scandals are part of a long-simmering neglect of important theological issues regarding sex and sexuality.

The same people who agitated for altar girls are the same people who agitate for the Church to "be welcoming" to homosexuality and the same people who introduced altar girls into the churches are the people who shifted pedophile priests from parish to parish.

As I said, it is all of a piece. When the priesthood and the sacraments are not taken seriously, traditional morality is not taken seriously either.

There is a parable about the servant who was faithful in small things.

38 posted on 09/24/2003 3:34:03 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Pan_Yans Wife
Agreed. But the godless want to use an accusing finger about the scandals of a minority to isolate and paralyze the entire institution. That's not going to happen.
39 posted on 09/24/2003 3:34:07 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: wideawake
The proof will be in the next generation.
40 posted on 09/24/2003 3:34:11 PM PDT by Lorianne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 401-416 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson