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Wall between church & state is lawyers' con
NY Daily News ^ | September 23, 2003 | ANDREW W. GREELEY

Posted on 09/23/2003 3:41:03 PM PDT by presidio9

The recent outcry about the monumental Ten Commandments in an Alabama courthouse illustrates how absurd the controversy about church and state has become. It is difficult to understand how the presence of the commandments might influence what goes on in courtrooms. Judges and lawyers are most unlikely to change their habits and procedures, and criminals, having violated the commandments, will pay little attention to them.

Applied logically, the "wall of separation between church and state" should ban military chaplains, the motto "In God We Trust" and prayers before the meetings of both houses of Congress and even of the Supreme Court itself.

The high court thus permits for itself what it does not permit for children at public school graduations or football games.

Prayers at public school events are not exactly my cup of tea. However, if people want to have such prayers, there is nothing in the history of our republic that suggests it is illegal for them to do so.

The court decisions of the past 50 years are raw exercises in legislative power. Judges don't like prayer in schools, and therefore they legislate against the practice. Since their power is virtually unlimited (as we saw in the theft of the 2000 presidential election), they can do whatever they want. Only impeachment or a constitutional amendment or a change in legal fashions can repeal the court's legislation. The court as a third and unelected legislature has absolute power. Absolute power, as we know, corrupts absolutely.

The First Amendment's clause on religion is a delicate balancing act. It prohibits the American government from interfering with the free exercise of religion or establishing an official religion, as the Church of England is established in England.

The court decisions of the last half-century have twisted the establishment part of the clause beyond recognition and have notably interfered with the free exercise of religion. The justices have used clever little arguments that lawyers so dearly love to justify the establishment of unbelief as the official religion of America.

The underlying conviction that motivated these decisions back in the 1950s was that religion is really not a good thing and should not be permitted to interfere with the ordinary processes of American democracy.

With some exceptions, the legal theorists at the elite law schools of the country who support the "wall of separation" and their journalistic supporters are agnostics or atheists. Like any religious group, they want to establish their own religion, and they have done so.

The sure sign that they are hypocrites is that they repeat the "wall of separation" cliche as a magic formula, though they know the phrase is not a direct quote from the Constitution but rather words Thomas Jefferson penned in a letter. It has become the approved mantra for preventing freedom of school choice for poor parents. Almost all the members of the Senate exercise such freedom of choice because they can afford to pay tuition for elite private schools. But the poor people of the District of Columbia are denied such freedom because it would violate the "wall of separation."

What an exercise of phony piety.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: wallofseparation
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1 posted on 09/23/2003 3:41:03 PM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9
For once he has written something that makes sense.
2 posted on 09/23/2003 3:51:29 PM PDT by mom-7
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To: mom-7
For once he has written something that makes sense.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day . . . . on the other hand, perhaps this was written by a different Andrew Greeley.

3 posted on 09/23/2003 4:02:21 PM PDT by Charles of Newark
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To: Charles of Newark
Truth is truth.
4 posted on 09/23/2003 4:14:27 PM PDT by INVAR
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To: presidio9
Wow.

Greeley actually wrote something that I mostly agree with.
5 posted on 09/23/2003 4:27:02 PM PDT by xzins (And now I will show you the most excellent way!)
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To: xzins
I know what you mean, I keep re-reading it and pinching my arm to see if I'm dreaming.
6 posted on 09/23/2003 4:30:20 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: presidio9
What is the biggest church on earth? My guess is that it's my church, the Roman Catholic church.

So, once we get rid of the separation of church and state, we Catholics will be calling the shots.

No war in Iraq, no death penalty, no birth control.

Oh, glee!
7 posted on 09/23/2003 7:52:19 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: CobaltBlue
Separation of church and state is in the constitution. Article 52 of the constitution of the USSR that is. You can't possibly be serious about your comment given that this country was founded by christians fleeing persecution in Europe. They never wanted a government without religion. While America bred morally upright leaders like George Washington, the secularist communists produced the likes of Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot and Chirac, who head or headed the secular communists governments responsible for the deaths of millions of people.

When you take the reverence for life that a strong christian ethic brings out of the government you get for example France. They had 15,000 people die a few weeks ago. You can blame it on the secularist socialist government they have.
8 posted on 09/23/2003 8:00:47 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer
No, I am cool with churches running private lives, as long as it's my church, the Roman Catholic church.

It's the only church that was actually established by Jesus Christ Himself. Accept no substitutes.

9 posted on 09/23/2003 8:12:40 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: CobaltBlue
Well the Constitution forbids the government from running private lives, so as long as we keep our government constitutional, no problem!
10 posted on 09/23/2003 8:19:11 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: CobaltBlue
Oh, and churches aren't elected to office, only individual citizens. So lets elect some people of high moral character with a belief in the Almighty, and we might get some of our god-given rights back.
11 posted on 09/23/2003 8:22:03 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: CobaltBlue
It's the only church that was actually established by Jesus Christ Himself.

Besides saying "baloney" I will not grace that foolish remark with any other comment.

12 posted on 09/23/2003 8:38:06 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: LiteKeeper
Besides saying "baloney" I will not grace that foolish remark with any other comment.

Typical Protestant silliness. If you had an intelligent comeback, why didn't you make it?

13 posted on 09/23/2003 9:04:57 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: hedgetrimmer
So lets elect some people of high moral character with a belief in the Almighty, and we might get some of our god-given rights back.

Agreed, as long as they're not Protestants.

14 posted on 09/23/2003 9:05:53 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: CobaltBlue
As if Christ established any Protestant church. As if.

If ya'll Protestants want churches running the government, better bow down to the One Church, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Accept no substitutes. You will be assimilated.
15 posted on 09/23/2003 9:09:07 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: mom-7
"(as we saw in the theft of the 2000 presidential election),"

Refuse to read any further.
16 posted on 09/23/2003 9:45:41 PM PDT by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: CobaltBlue
If ya'll Protestants want churches running the government, better bow down to the One Church, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church

Assuming, of course, that it has any money left after the pederasty trials.

In any case, the Roman Catholic Church in America is hardly the Pope's Church. If you don't think so, ask yourself this: How come they finally let a Priest do the prayers in Congress?

17 posted on 09/23/2003 9:50:29 PM PDT by Held_to_Ransom
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To: CobaltBlue
Even more importantly: How come a Catholic priest did them?
18 posted on 09/23/2003 9:51:36 PM PDT by Held_to_Ransom
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To: presidio9
"The sure sign that they are hypocrites is that they repeat the "wall of separation" cliche as a magic formula, though they know the phrase is not a direct quote from the Constitution but rather words Thomas Jefferson penned in a letter."

And first referred to by SCOTUS in the 1870's, I believe.

19 posted on 09/23/2003 9:56:46 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Veni Vidi Velcro)
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To: Held_to_Ransom
Individual dioceses may be broke but not the Church.

As for why the current House Chaplain is Roman Catholic, sorry, I don't know any juicy gossip.
20 posted on 09/24/2003 4:52:21 AM PDT by CobaltBlue
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