Court bans religious gifts to classmates

The Washington Times ^ | September 21, 2003 | Julia Duin

[Teacher317]

Everything banned or everything allowed. If ANY opinion is expressed, then ALL opinions should be allowed to be expressed.

I'd be veeeeery careful about making this their choice. There are far too many "citizens" out there who simply despise Freedom and/or free people enjoying their lives, and would therefore gladly choose "everything banned".

[INVAR]

Astute and completely correct goodseed.

The Liberal Socialists, along with the Secular/Humanists/Atheists are waging a war. We Conservatives, Constitutionalists and People of Faith are not fighting it like a war. We sit on our complacency. We capitulate to expediency. We retreat from conflict to keep appearances up to satiate and placate the constituency.

As a people of faith, we shrug our shoulders, shake our heads - maybe pray and hope for a turnaround in our nation - BUT DO NOTHING TO STAND UP AND FILL THE GAP.

Take the Apostle Paul's admonition that when you see a naked, hungy man on the street - do you say "Go warmed, be filled" and yet do nothing to provide what the body needs? What does it profit? Likewise, we see America as naked, hungry, pitiful and blind spiritually - yet what do we do? Our churches say "Go, be warmed, filled with the Spirit - I'll pray for you" AND DO NOTHING to rectify the condition we are in.

We have become ignorant of our history, our heritage, the plain words of our Constitution and Declaration, the plain words of God in Scripture and we have instead allowed the clever high-priesthood of Secular Lawyers and Liberal Activists to chip away at our foundations, and remake our Republic into their vision of a pure utopian Socialist Democracy.

If we do not do an about-face and return to actively seek God's way and forgiveness as a nation - America will be assuredly destroyed completely and totally. God will aloow us to suffer the consequences of our own wicked and backards ways, and as we harden our hearts and stiffen our necks - He will surely destroy us, and our remanant taken into a captivity that will make Auchwitz look like a picnic.

For crying out loud - we are fighting a war with people who want to kill as many of us as possible, and will do so by killing themselves! THESE are people intent of converting by force and death, the entire world to Islam. How can we fight such an enemy without God's help? Now that we've relegated God to closets and basementsm will God set His face against us? Will He laugh at us in the day of our calamity?

The way to fix all our ills, is to start from the ground up, not by only electing a president or high official that goes by a preferred party, but to get your own house in order. To educate your kids of our true history and heritage, to teach your neighbors the truth of our history, to transform your communities and towns and cities.

Our Founders warned us this republic would last only so long as the people were a holy and religious people. They understood Liberty was dependant on the citizens being devout to scriptural faith and upon the tenets and precepts of Christianity.

Lose those, lose liberty and thus lose the nation.

We are only now just beginning to see that fact realized.

Time to stand folks. Draw the sword of truth and wield it without mercy. The Liberals and Socialists are coming with a vengeance - they are waging war to deprive us of our Liberty and our freedoms. Let us therefore wage it in return with a fierce boldness they cannot even imagine.

[disclaimer]

I'd bet that most here would wig out if those pencils were handed out.

Absolutely. A law that only allows court sanctioned speech won't fix that problem though.

[glory]

Bravo--my point as earlier lines up with yours:

"I am a Christian, I have to live in this country just like the atheist and I pay taxes, etc. If witchcraft, secular humanism and uniformitarianism can be taught to our kids in the public schools, not to mention pantheism, etc., then let the Christian put in his two cents worth as well. "

[glory]

Bravo--my point as earlier lines up with yours:

"I am a Christian, I have to live in this country just like the atheist and I pay taxes, etc. If witchcraft, secular humanism and uniformitarianism can be taught to our kids in the public schools, not to mention pantheism, etc., then let the Christian put in his two cents worth as well. "

[tpaine]

Our Founders considered religion and it's promotion in our schools and culture ESSENTIAL to the preservation of our Republic.

We are thus driven to the unfashionable conclusion that the trouble with our species is not an excess of aggression, but an excess capacity for fanatical devotion." -Arthur Koestler-

I'll take the devout wisdom of our Founders that established our republican liberty these 2 centuries-plus,

Your 'fanatical devotion' is evident in your insistence that our Founders considered religious promotion ESSENTIAL to the preservation of our Republic. Nothing in our constitution backs your theory..

over that of Koestler's Humanist Intellectualism that Communists such as Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot also agreed and espoused.

Your zealotry has more in common with communism that Koestlers anti-statist inellectualism.

[longtermmemmory]

Did they just outlaw "Merry Christmas" gifts?

[longtermmemmory]

simple solution, hand out the pencils WITH a 3x3 square of sand paper. its about choice. (you know the pencil could have been refused...)

[INVAR]

Your 'fanatical devotion' is evident in your insistence that our Founders considered religious promotion ESSENTIAL to the preservation of our Republic. Nothing in our constitution backs your theory..

Oh really?? How about the words of the Founders themselves?

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other" - John Adams

"The only foundation for a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can BE NO LIBERTY, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments" - Benjamin Rush.

"Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and morality alone which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand" - John Adams

"Whenever the pillars of Christianity are overthrown, our present republican form of government and all the blessings which flow from them, must fall with them." - Jedediah Morse

Your ignorance of what the Founders said and considered themselves because such belief was not written in the Cosntitution itself is an absurd assumption on your part. It was a universal no-brainer for the men who penned the Founding Documents that liberty and freedom come from, and are given by God - not by men. As such, any abandonment of following the morality of God's laws as revealed in scripture was understood to be the death of liberty, and ultimately our republic. The Founders themselves experienced the tyranny that comes when the written law based upon God's Laws was usurped by men in power. That is precisely what the Crown of England did, and why our cause for Independence was built upon re-establishing that law of God as the sole governance by which men ought to be governed.

This is why Franklin said when asked what kind of Government they had given to us "A republic Madam....if you can keep it".

Your zealotry has more in common with communism that Koestlers anti-statist inellectualism.

Hardly. Your sad attempt to equate religious principle and our foundation that was built upon the laws of God as a zealous communion with communism showcases your complete ignorance of our History, the Founders and WHY they established this nation as they had.

In short, by your quote above, our Founders would be considered Communist tyrants by you. Sorry, your revisionism doesn't work when compared to the actual writings and statements by the Founders themselves. Or do I assume you agree with Thurgood Marshall?

It is Atheism and Intellectualism that is and was the foundation for the greatest tyranny, murder and opression by secular regimes during the last 100 years.

[tpaine]

It is Atheism and Intellectualism that is and was the foundation for the greatest tyranny, murder and opression by secular regimes during the last 100 years.
-invar-


All the overzealous advocates of the various isms can fairly be described as fanatics. -- Thus:

"The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause, and to espouse its credo uncritically and enthusiastically, even if its tenets are contrary to reason, devoid of self-interest and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation."

[f.Christian]

More evidence of why it's good that we are not a theocracy. Thanks for your help.

Atheocrats police - nazis like you is ok ?

[INVAR]

All the overzealous advocates of the various isms can fairly be described as fanatics. --

That would by your above reckoning include almost all of our Founding Fathers. By the decree of King Geroge III himself who delcared them 'fanatics' and 'rabble'.

If therefore I must be considered a 'fanatic' - per the application of your doctrine - then AMEN! Consider me a fanatic! I proudly stand beside our Foundign Fathers and their fanaticiscm that established the liberty and freedom you take for granted, spit upon and ridicule in your smug condescension.

"The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause........"

America's history and Greatness and arrival as the lone Superpower of the globe proves your oft-quoted mantra as utter nonsense and secular excrement of the most distasteful kind.

America's founding was upon the CAUSE of liberty to RE-ESTABLISH the Law of God as the Sovereign by which we are consented to be governed. The Tribe of Christian Peoples who founded this new world considered themselves and the establishment of this nation as a City on a Hill - a Spiritual Israel built upon the Church of Christianity.

The diary writings from John Bradford on through the statements, speeches, letters and personal entries in journals of the Founders through to Abraham Lincoln bear-out that incontravertible fact.

So by your own definition of the mantra by which you are beholden; America was founded by, established and populated by a majority bunch of fanatics.

You must be French...or worse.

[tpaine]

All the overzealous advocates of the various isms can fairly be described as fanatics. --

That would by your above reckoning include almost all of our Founding Fathers. By the decree of King Geroge III himself who delcared them 'fanatics' and 'rabble'.

I reckoned that? Bizarre claim. Desperation for a 'comeback' does that.

If therefore I must be considered a 'fanatic' - per the application of your doctrine - then AMEN! Consider me a fanatic! I proudly stand beside our Foundign Fathers and their fanaticiscm that established the liberty and freedom you take for granted, spit upon and ridicule in your smug condescension.

Whatever.

--------------------------------

"The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause........"

America's history and Greatness and arrival as the lone Superpower of the globe proves your oft-quoted mantra as utter nonsense and secular excrement of the most distasteful kind. America's founding was upon the CAUSE of liberty to RE-ESTABLISH the Law of God as the Sovereign by which we are consented to be governed. The Tribe of Christian Peoples who founded this new world considered themselves and the establishment of this nation as a City on a Hill - a Spiritual Israel built upon the Church of Christianity. The diary writings from John Bradford on through the statements, speeches, letters and personal entries in journals of the Founders through to Abraham Lincoln bear-out that incontravertible fact. So by your own definition of the mantra by which you are beholden; America was founded by, established and populated by a majority bunch of fanatics. You must be French...or worse.

Quite the rant.. Obviously you're getting overwrought.
Calm yourself.

[INVAR]

I think not.

The time to calmly reason with those ignorant of our true history and heritage and intent on usurping our birthrights is over.

Since war is being waged opon our true history, rights and culture, I will fight it without mercy or respite until error and lies are cut to pieces and shown to be the excrement they are.

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. We've done nothing for far too long already.

The only calm I reserve for myself is the comfort in knowing I have both history and truth on my side, which makes for an excellent sword in which to wield.

[petitfour]

I have only read part of the replies, but this quote strikes me as odd: It was "highly unlikely," he wrote that then-4-year-old Daniel was "able to independently read and advocate the dissemination of the message on the pencils." If the 4-year-old cannot read, then what is the problem? Neither can the rest of the 4-year-olds. More silliness.

[tpaine]

The only calm I reserve for myself is the comfort in knowing I have both history and truth on my side, which makes for an excellent sword in which to wield.
-invar-


You demonstrated no history or truth in your namecalling at #173.

My dedication to the history and truth of our constitution is evidenced by over five years of posting here on that subject.
Feel free to challenge my actual words on those truths.

Take you BS to the backroom.

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

"Being thus arrived in a good harbor and brought safe to land, they fell upon their knees and blessed God of heaven who had brought them over the vast and furious ocean"

'William Bradford-HIstory of Plymouth Plantation'


"Just then (at the right time in history) North America was discovered, as if it had been kept in reserve by the Deity and has just risen from beneath the waters of the deluge"

Alexis de Tocqueville

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

"great hope and inward zeal of laying some good foundation for the propagating and advancing of the Gospel of the Kingdom of Christ in these remote parts of the world,yea, though they should be as stepping stones to others for performing of so great a work."
William Bradford, HIstory of Plymoth Plantation

[INVAR]

You demonstrated no history or truth in your namecalling at #173.

With due respect sir, it is your position, assertion and reply I declared excrement, notably your repetitious quote from Koestler that insults all people of Faith, and even the Founder's themselves:

"The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause........"

To which I replied that such a quote to make your point was not only innacurate in the face of our history, but a bold-faced pile of excrement in the light of our Founders' actual words and statements.

The history and truth is contained in the quotes from the Founders themselves that I provided above to prove my case. Quotes that you have completely ignored and disregarded.

My dedication to the history and truth of our constitution is evidenced by over five years of posting here on that subject.

Thusfar on this subject and discussion I am hardly impressed. You have not addressed ONE quotation from our Founders that renders your position moot and in error.

Feel free to challenge my actual words on those truths.

I already have and proven them falsehoods by the very words of the Founder's themselves. Thusfar you haven't proven anything you've provided as a truth, save that quote from Koestler you keep pushing as some kind of venerable wisdom that the Founder's themselves would have considered rubbish.

Take you BS to the backroom.

After you sir, after you.

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

"I have lived a long time, and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire (great nation) can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that, "except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that built it"

Benjamin Franklin during debate at convention.